it's scary what can be found in an ECM

Joesixpack said:
I'm interested if you keep the ECM from transmitting CAN data? In theory even though you could not read the tables you could still log the outputs and recreate the tune fairly easy.
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True, but only if you previously know the specific axis defines and break points...without that info, your guessing.
 
You still get all the CAN data, but what you see are the values after the limiters have been applied.

For example.....

On the tune that this originally started as, even with those commanded pressures up in the 36K range, all you see in the logs for ACTUAL values are 23k'ish PSI.

Same thing with the other parameters.

Even if you commanded 38* of timing, if the limiter is set at 25*, you won't see more than that in the logs.
 
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JasonCzerak said:
last word!
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Damn Jason..... do you just like to argue ? The questions you're asking too..... are you the IP police ? Are you mad that OEM didn't lock their files ? You should be happy a user friendly interface ( EFI ) has come a long to where we don't have the black box question. Who cares why the OEM tunes aren't locked. The whole point of the locked thing is so, as mentioned.... the hours that went into building it aren't lost to copy cats. OEM I'm sure fully had that option and choose not to. I see it being said though the newer trucks are locked.

I'm not sure what you meant about my truck but, being able to tune it instead of... here's the latest tune for download ( which by the way made the latest made my truck run worse than it ever did I couldn't go back ) made the difference. It actually runs now instead of spitting and sputter and spewing gobs of white smoke.
 
triton said:
Damn Jason..... do you just like to argue ? The questions you're asking too..... are you the IP police ? Are you mad that OEM didn't lock their files ? You should be happy a user friendly interface ( EFI ) has come a long to where we don't have the black box question. Who cares why the OEM tunes aren't locked. The whole point of the locked thing is so, as mentioned.... the hours that went into building it aren't lost to copy cats. OEM I'm sure fully had that option and choose not to. I see it being said though the newer trucks are locked.

I'm not sure what you meant about my truck but, being able to tune it instead of... here's the latest tune for download ( which by the way made the latest made my truck run worse than it ever did I couldn't go back ) made the difference. It actually runs now instead of spitting and sputter and spewing gobs of white smoke.
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It all went right over your head too. Damn.

ohh well.
 
Here is what the data from the original tune in question looks like if you data log it and lay it out with the custom maps.

As said before, the commanded rail pressure was up in the 36K range, but with the limiters applied here is what it looks like when you log it.

Keep in mind, the X and Y axis values are what I wanted to see, not what was used in the actual tune. This was from a pass down the track.

RailPressureMap-1.jpg
 
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JasonCzerak said:
It all went right over your head too. Damn.

ohh well.
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No it sure didn't. Your questions aren't relevent to anything. I understand the pot deal but, are tuner suppose to say... well, OEM was free so we have to be also. And actually, the way I looked at it is.... I paid 40K and that includes every transistor, software, nut or bolt on the truck. They don't get any back !

and in fact.... my local dealer wants $84 for a reflash so, again.... if you ask me, it's paid for
 
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Cummin-a-long said:
Here is what the data from the original tune in question looks like if you data log it and lay it out with the custom maps.

As said before, the commanded rail pressure was up in the 36K range, but with the limiters applied here is what it looks like when you log it.

Keep in mind, the X and Y axis values are what I wanted to see, not what was used in the actual tune. This was from a pass down the track.

RailPressureMap-1.jpg
Click to expand...


The actual data is what said "reverse engineer" is interested in.

LOG ACTUAL

RPM
Pressure
Injector pulse time
Timing
Accelerator position
(Any other actual data of interest)

And there you have it, why would said "reverse engineer" have any interest how you set up any particular axis?
 
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triton said:
No it sure didn't. Your questions aren't relevent to anything. I understand the pot deal but, are tuner suppose to say... well, OEM was free so we have to be also. And actually, the way I looked at it is.... I paid 40K and that includes every transistor, software, nut or bolt on the truck. They don't get any back !

and in fact.... my local dealer wants $84 for a reflash so, again.... if you ask me, it's paid for
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My question to efilive was never answered, if they typically brute force the "lock". Until then.

Whiteroom reverse engineering is fair game. However their are copyright issues at hand. Software, music, etc isn't "yours" even tho you "bought it".

I'm going to be right in the middle on this topic. I agree with the hard work, but i'd have to agree with the oem's. just look at you computer, you think Microsoft would just roll over if you de -compiled their software and sold it as yours?

However, its mine. lemme tinker with it. heh. Im all for efilive and tuning stuff

As i said before, its grey area. lots of it. Its a good thing this market does more for oem's then hurt them, its a shame the epa's wants it to stop.

So, inconclusion, locked tunes are ghey.
 
Joesixpack said:
The actual data is what said "reverse engineer" is interested in.

LOG ACTUAL

RPM
Pressure
Injector pulse time
Timing
Accelerator position
(Any other actual data of interest)

And there you have it, why would said "reverse engineer" have any interest how you set up any particular axis?
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You are correct, there isn't much that can't be found if someone wants to look hard enough.

What's not logged are the limiters. So really what the individual is seeing is really "final data", I guess you could call it, at that point in time. What also isn't logged are the density tables and the selection of those tables.

But, the idea of not locking a file is the same as not locking the shop at night. Why not just leave the door open and let folks walk it?

There's a big difference in the easy way in and the hard way in. I could just let said individual have the tune, or I can make them put their stuff on the track or dyno and find it.
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As for Jason thinking the locked file is ghey.....I tell ya what precious, for the next month, you send me 20% of your paycheck and I'll send you an open tune. Puts it into a little different persepective, doesn't it.
 
But, its ok to show oem and other box tunes you read? gotchya. ;)

wait.. its less wrong if its harder to get at the data?

lol.

Frankly i don't care if you lock some tunes. (no one does) Its ok to be the kettle. no ones going to come after anyone. not worth it for the oem's. too many little guys and i bet they don't care. A warranty disclaimer is bad press in front of the epa

Your locked door analogy is wrong.
 
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JasonCzerak said:
Folks like Rich tuning and leaving it unlocked are the chit. Keep it up!
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JasonCzerak said:
But, its ok to show oem and other box tunes you read? gotchya. ;)

wait.. its less wrong if its harder to get at the data?

lol.

Frankly i don't care if you lock some tunes. (no one does) Its ok to be the kettle. no ones going to come after anyone. not worth it for the oem's. too many little guys and i bet they don't care. A warranty disclaimer is bad press in front of the epa

Your locked door analogy is wrong.
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Anytime you feel like hoping off your soap box 'lil fella.....

Somehow, I don't see Czerak getting much help when the time comes.

You'll be okay, I'm sure.

:hehe:
 
lol. I confused you didn't I? It's not like I'm talking about the volume of a box or something.

(damn send button on tapatalk)

funny how you're taking offense to questions not directed to you, over topics you obviously dont understand. meh. what ev. i'll give up. you can have the last word

I'd love to hear EfiLive's stance on ecm IP. I know Smarty folks just stay silent.

Again, i dont care what you do... Its nice that you do leave (some) unlocked.
 
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No, you didn't confuse anything Jason, you just sound like the little boy that cried wolf with your IP crap. Everytime you don't get your way you go back to that broken record of BS.

Put in the hours, put in the dyno time, put your parts on the line and then let me know what you think should be a freebie. Hell, you're too cheap as it is to put the truck on the dyno for more than an hour and actually dial it in with what you have.

And, when the time comes, go ahead and set what you have right now back to stock and get a read....let me know how that works for ya. Actually don't, because that would be unethical. Download a stock tune from the library and....actually don't, because that would be unethical. Here's what I want you to do.....take the ECM out of your truck, make one, write the programming language for it, put it in the truck and tune it.

Otherwise, take your IP nonsense and piss up a rope.
 
Cummin-a-long said:
No, you didn't confuse anything Jason, you just sound like the little boy that cried wolf with your IP crap. Everytime you don't get your way you go back to that broken record of BS.

Put in the hours, put in the dyno time, put your parts on the line and then let me know what you think should be a freebie. Hell, you're too cheap as it is to put the truck on the dyno for more than an hour and actually dial it in with what you have.

And, when the time comes, go ahead and set what you have right now back to stock and get a read....let me know how that works for ya. Actually don't, because that would be unethical. Download a stock tune from the library and....actually don't, because that would be unethical. Here's what I want you to do.....take the ECM out of your truck, make one, write the programming language for it, put it in the truck and tune it.

Otherwise, take your IP nonsense and piss up a rope.
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Gosh you're epic. Making crap up and you still haven't understood what i've been saying.


carry on with your bad self


BTW, Ryan is 200# lighter, running .3 faster in florida. i think my ssr tune is rather "good" for my 2.6.
 
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Don't fool yourself....I know what Ryan is running....and it's not what you think.

And, last time I checked, Ryan is a 6.7 and also running a PCS standalone.

So, compare what you know and not what you think.

Epic my azz.....making crap up.....sound like a damn drama queen.
 
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