Borg Warner test the BATMOWHEEL

TMONEYDIESEL said:
BW got a little tired of the Batmowheel claims and has now matched up their cast 80mm S400 wheel against the Double Batmowheel 80mm


Batmo - .86Kg/s = 114lbs/min
Borg 80- .92Kg/s = 122lbs/min.

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TMONEYDIESEL was the one who started this thread, and I'm sure he'll confirm that he didn't get this info from me.
 
Toolman said:
Maybe if this dyno competition comes off they could rig up some kind of video camera aimed at the gauges and hooked to a big screen to show what is going on in the truck to verify what the pyro and boost is reading for everyone to see. That way it could be recorded too. I can't wait to see this I think it will surprise a lot of people.
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Good Idea Bruce
 
Good point aron. Honestly all i know is BW is a very reputable company, and there stuff performs better than advertised. This is the only Turbo company i can speak for.
 
Like i said in 1 of these threads, 1 truck with efi live, 3 tunes, run both turbos with those 3 tunes. Post the data log with the tps signal and egts.

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I for one would love to see a test of the two side by side so to speak. The set of rules (if you want to call them that) is the problem here. They leave way to much up to someones opinion and the possible variations between two test units proposed is way to big. Get rid of the bogus rules, get some real test equipment in place and control the tests in all cases and let the results speak for themselves.
 
oldestof11 said:
Like i said in 1 of these threads, 1 truck with efi live, 3 tunes, run both turbos with those 3 tunes. Post the data log with the tps signal and egts.

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I like that idea too...

But please, without bias answer this question and I am not asking to stir but pot, or anything of that nature:

If a truck comes in with with a billet s466 on it, and a tune that puts the truck at 1700 degrees at the top of the dyno pull, and making 65lbs of boost.

Then, you bolt the batmowheel s466 with the same turbine size and exhaust housing etc. and throw it back on the dyno and EGT peaks at 1500 degrees and boost is 50lbs. and drive pressure is lower (assuming you have the instrumentation to see this)

So...that being said, the owner of the truck says sure there is room for hotter tuning because he is ok with the 1700 degrees, and ok with pushing the turbo to 65lbs like he was with the turbo he came in with.

They adjust the tuning, and you are at the same EGT and boost with the batmo as you where with the other charger, but making more power now. (just assuming it makes more power just for the question)

Would that not show that the batmowheel is in fact making a difference in over all performance?
 
It was not asked out of ignorance, nor did I state anything I was simply asking a question. The reason why I asked the question is because in those rules that where posted it seemed that the tuning change part was put in place for that reason.

So i asked about a scenario, because that is how I read it in their rules.
 
rollincoalCTD said:
I like that idea too...

But please, without bias answer this question and I am not asking to stir but pot, or anything of that nature:

If a truck comes in with with a billet s466 on it, and a tune that puts the truck at 1700 degrees at the top of the dyno pull, and making 65lbs of boost.

Then, you bolt the batmowheel s466 with the same turbine size and exhaust housing etc. and throw it back on the dyno and EGT peaks at 1500 degrees and boost is 50lbs. and drive pressure is lower (assuming you have the instrumentation to see this)

So...that being said, the owner of the truck says sure there is room for hotter tuning because he is ok with the 1700 degrees, and ok with pushing the turbo to 65lbs like he was with the turbo he came in with.

They adjust the tuning, and you are at the same EGT and boost with the batmo as you where with the other charger, but making more power now. (just assuming it makes more power just for the question)

Would that not show that the batmowheel is in fact making a difference in over all performance?
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You're absolutely right. If that guy makes more HP and is happy then, in this instance, the Batmowheel is a good fit. How can you argue with that?

Unfortunately, dyno testing is not a good way to universally prove one product is better than another. That is evident by the number of people who have already conducted head-to-head dyno tests, each with a different result. So how is one more dyno challenge going to prove anything?
 
SecondaryBoostvsPrimaryairtemp.jpg


1044temps.jpg



This is the kind of data I'd like to see, any and all variables could be graphed over the power curve and each compared. I think I could even get the ecm to output voltage that correlated to timing, pressure and pulse-width that could be graphed as well.


However my experience suggests for maximum power the tune will be different for differing quantities of air.

1. Same tune.
2. Tune optimized BW
3. Tune optimized BATwheel
 
Well thats kind of what I was thinking and thats why I asked the question...didnt quite have the ol' flame suit ready for that one haha!
 
I agree, addition of more fuel to reach the same EGT as the previous turbo is a bad move. Let them scream to the same boost psi, same tune, on the throttle at same RPM, same load...blah blah blah
 
I see it both ways, one from logic and one from experience.

Logical approach. The tune has to match the turbo (or any part that's changed). If you change out the compressor and a different air volume is now being pushed into the motor (temp, and boost changes), the tune may have too much, or too little timing, etc,etc,etc and may lose power or make power depending on where that base line was. I hate to say it, 2 things have to change in this case


Experience told me, due to the fact the SSR is crap, the tune that worked the best and required me to drive around it's crappieyness with the single turbo, made more power when it was used for the compounds, according to the butt dyno. The low end became so different that I bet I hit parts of maps that I never seen before. Then I turned up the fuel and look at what I have now? A truck sitting out side at some guys shop awaiting a headgasket. :) Logically, the SSR is crap. So it's a moot point, kinda interesting tho.


The big question is this:

If I had the hypothetical EFI live for the 03-05, i'm sure a tune could be made to run say, 550whp with the 66 and that same tune would of netted the same with compounds. Then what? What did that prove? It proved that the fuel injected netted the exact amount of air flow required to make 550whp.

In my world, if I change out hard parts to gauge what is faster (OS kernel, network card, disk drive, switch, CPU, RAM, chip set would be "hard parts") I still need to tweak the software or my performance results would be wrong! Sure I'll run a base line with the same old settings for giggles, but I'm sure as hell not going choose based on not tweaking the software to be optimized for the hardware in place, some pieces of hardware need to have chit like buffer sizes different to do the same damn thing.

So in the end, If you don't change the software tune to MAXIMIZE the PERFORMANCE, you're doing it wrong.

Ohh and the EGT thing, yeah, I understand it to be a sign of efficiency, but I don't see it being a number to meet if the blowupmowheel runs cooler... turn up the fuel till it stops making power, or blows up, who cares about EGT.
 
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DIESEL_POWER said:
They are the biggest and have the best engineering equipment and staff in the World....even indy car, F1, and Le Mans teams uses there stuff.
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Audi's and Peugeot's diesel powered LMP1 cars have used nothing but Garrett turbochargers just FYI. They seem to be doing just fine with them...
 
I have a very hard time believing that 8 lbs a min will make any major difference on a single turbo setup with the same turbines and turbine housings. You guys are talking like there will be an ungodly big hp difference . I think they will dyno within 20 hp of each other and egts will be so close a Data logger would be needed to tell a difference. I'm sure the smaller chargers have less of a flow spread than the 80mm too. My main issue with the batmo is the cost for something that is no real gain. But that's how fads work. This dyno will prove nothing and people will always fight about if it was done right. No ones opinions will be changed unless a very accurate data logger and engine dyno is used. But we all know that will not happen.
 
BW provided facts. No statement of potential power it can make, or any other speculation about it's performance. Just facts as to what turbo flows the most air. 8 lbs. a minute is really insignificant. If the blowmo wheel was 8 lbs. in the positive column the test would still prove it is a waste of money. Not to even get into the speculation that it is a defective design and/or improper balancing or assembly.
 
Lostnwalmart said:
I have a very hard time believing that 8 lbs a min will make any major difference on a single turbo setup with the same turbines and turbine housings. You guys are talking like there will be an ungodly big hp difference . I think they will dyno within 20 hp of each other and egts will be so close a Data logger would be needed to tell a difference. I'm sure the smaller chargers have less of a flow spread than the 80mm too. My main issue with the batmo is the cost for something that is no real gain. But that's how fads work. This dyno will prove nothing and people will always fight about if it was done right. No ones opinions will be changed unless a very accurate data logger and engine dyno is used. But we all know that will not happen.
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Figure an 80mm charger is enough for 1000HP, and 8lbs is roughly 7% of the flow. So just for simplification it would be approximately 70HP.
 
Dan beat me to it. I was about to say that percentage wise, 8lbs out of 122 is quite significant when looking for the most hp.
 
zstroken said:
Figure an 80mm charger is enough for 1000HP, and 8lbs is roughly 7% of the flow. So just for simplification it would be approximately 70HP.
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I understand this but I doubt the average person on the street will be able to properly use that 7%. But maybe I have lost faith in the average diesel consumer.
 
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