Cat 3406c low on power

thatguy69

New member
I have a buddy that picked up a tandem axle kenworth with the 3406c. He has complained since day one that it is low on power compared to his general tandem axle with the big cam Cummins. I'm not well versed in these trucks at all and haven't worked on them much at all other than doing a clutch job on the big cam. The 3406c has a snapped manifold stud and he is bringing it over for me to try and get the stud out. While it's here I am going to check it for boost leaks and fuel pressure(which should be?) but other than that if it all checks out fine is there a decent way to bump the power on these? And also any tips or tricks on getting the stud out along with getting the others out WITHOUT snapping would be great. Thanks
 
If it's a mechanical, it's usually a ruptured fuel ratio diaphragm. Next would be timing advance has slipped.

Sent from my motorola one action using Tapatalk
 
That broken stud will be a blast.
There is very little chance of that stud coming out without having to pull the manifold. Pulling the manifold will result in more drilling.

I recommend you look into the jig tool for drilling those out. Get a new set of studs, nuts, gaskets, and pack a lunch.
 
Some times you are better off to sever the nut and remove the sleeves. Pull the manifold. I will sometimes take an air hammer to the end of a stud if they are fighting. Also, taking a stud socket and sliding it to the head and then rotating yields better results than trying to turn a stuck one from anywhere near the end.

I take a spherical carbide bit and cut a dish into the broken stud for self centering (which is ultimately what the kit snedge mentioned does) then start with a small cobalt drill, like 1/16. I will step up until I have a roughly 3/16" hole and then take 1/4" or 5/16" left hand bit, and slowly rotate it until it grabs the stud. The point is for it to grab, not cut. I use a snap on air drill. I get it to the point that I'm using my hands to rotate the drill instead of letting it do it. If that wants to cut instead, you're pretty much doomed to drill it completely out.
I've never had a twist socket work on one that was actually stuck.
If it gets out of hand, I recommend a gardsert instead of a helicoil.

Sent from my motorola one action using Tapatalk
 
Some times you are better off to sever the nut and remove the sleeves. Pull the manifold. I will sometimes take an air hammer to the end of a stud if they are fighting. Also, taking a stud socket and sliding it to the head and then rotating yields better results than trying to turn a stuck one from anywhere near the end.

I take a spherical carbide bit and cut a dish into the broken stud for self centering (which is ultimately what the kit snedge mentioned does) then start with a small cobalt drill, like 1/16. I will step up until I have a roughly 3/16" hole and then take 1/4" or 5/16" left hand bit, and slowly rotate it until it grabs the stud. The point is for it to grab, not cut. I use a snap on air drill. I get it to the point that I'm using my hands to rotate the drill instead of letting it do it. If that wants to cut instead, you're pretty much doomed to drill it completely out.
I've never had a twist socket work on one that was actually stuck.
If it gets out of hand, I recommend a gardsert instead of a helicoil.

Sent from my motorola one action using Tapatalk
Thanks for the advice, is heat a bad idea to try and get the other ones broke free?
 
How do the gardserts lock? I used keenserts years ago but theyre difficult to find locally. I've always hated helicoil and thats pretty much all you can get in a hurry around here.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
I have a buddy that picked up a tandem axle kenworth with the 3406c. He has complained since day one that it is low on power compared to his general tandem axle with the big cam Cummins. I'm not well versed in these trucks at all and haven't worked on them much at all other than doing a clutch job on the big cam. The 3406c has a snapped manifold stud and he is bringing it over for me to try and get the stud out. While it's here I am going to check it for boost leaks and fuel pressure(which should be?) but other than that if it all checks out fine is there a decent way to bump the power on these? And also any tips or tricks on getting the stud out along with getting the others out WITHOUT snapping would be great. Thanks
I can tell you this, if it's a PEEC engine(electronic) tell him you'll denounce your friendship if he doesn't replace the pump with a mechanical one. The PEEC was Cat's first electronic truck engine, it still had the mechanical pump groups and timing advance, but they were controlled with brushless torque motors instead of mechanical linkage, springs, etc. The list of issues they had is too long to type and even if you fix it correctly it doesn't last, she'll be back in a couple months. The Cat ET program will usually communicate with it, but it's best to use the ECAPs.
Now onto the studs. Don't try to do battle with the thermostat housing throughout the whole job; get some gaskets(maybe a new regulator/seal while you're at it), drain the coolant and get it out of the way. Get some solid M35 cobalt drill bits or M42 if you have the finesse not to snap one, and they will drill right out. They're not hard. Drill it as close to center and straight as you can until you see a shadow of a thread. Swap to a 1/4" carbide burr bit and go around the hole until you see threads all the way around and use a pick and a tap to pull the threads of the broken stud out. I've done this literally hundreds of times on Cat heads and I very rarely need a helicoil or insert. DO NOT tap the threads all the way to the bottom of the hole!!! Cat uses taperlock studs that get snugged up in the hole before mounting the manifold and they'll thread in too deep if you bottom-tap it.
Fuel pressure isn't critical on those. 30psi. will run but they usually have more than that. Oh, and if it's a PEEC and he doesn't want to spend the money to convert it, let it be known that you told him on(give the date/time) that he was going to go into the poorhouse buying things like replacement BTM's, transducers and sensors. They pop 'em like candy and still cry like a spoiled brat.
 
Thanks for the advice, is heat a bad idea to try and get the other ones broke free?
I've never had much luck from heat. YMMV
I have had the same luck as huggler with drilling, you can get to the point where you are removing the threads (or usually the remaining shell) of the stud with a seal pick if you get it right. Depends on skill and experience.

Sent from my motorola one action using Tapatalk
 
How do the gardserts lock? I used keenserts years ago but theyre difficult to find locally. I've always hated helicoil and thats pretty much all you can get in a hurry around here.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
They self tap, so if the new bore is the right size the friction from engagement is enough to retain them. You can get them in standard and thin wall.
ed4aafc2ca27675f459a7ebaae987b30.jpg


Sent from my motorola one action using Tapatalk
 
I can tell you this, if it's a PEEC engine(electronic) tell him you'll denounce your friendship if he doesn't replace the pump with a mechanical one. The PEEC was Cat's first electronic truck engine, it still had the mechanical pump groups and timing advance, but they were controlled with brushless torque motors instead of mechanical linkage, springs, etc. The list of issues they had is too long to type and even if you fix it correctly it doesn't last, she'll be back in a couple months. The Cat ET program will usually communicate with it, but it's best to use the ECAPs.

Now onto the studs. Don't try to do battle with the thermostat housing throughout the whole job; get some gaskets(maybe a new regulator/seal while you're at it), drain the coolant and get it out of the way. Get some solid M35 cobalt drill bits or M42 if you have the finesse not to snap one, and they will drill right out. They're not hard. Drill it as close to center and straight as you can until you see a shadow of a thread. Swap to a 1/4" carbide burr bit and go around the hole until you see threads all the way around and use a pick and a tap to pull the threads of the broken stud out. I've done this literally hundreds of times on Cat heads and I very rarely need a helicoil or insert. DO NOT tap the threads all the way to the bottom of the hole!!! Cat uses taperlock studs that get snugged up in the hole before mounting the manifold and they'll thread in too deep if you bottom-tap it.

Fuel pressure isn't critical on those. 30psi. will run but they usually have more than that. Oh, and if it's a PEEC and he doesn't want to spend the money to convert it, let it be known that you told him on(give the date/time) that he was going to go into the poorhouse buying things like replacement BTM's, transducers and sensors. They pop 'em like candy and still cry like a spoiled brat.
ECAP's are scarce these days. I just banished mine to the main shop tool room.

Sent from my motorola one action using Tapatalk
 
ECAP's are scarce these days. I just banished mine to the main shop tool room.

Sent from my motorola one action using Tapatalk

It wouldn't exactly hurt my feelings if I never got to touch one ever again. The only fun I ever had with a peec was putting a vacuum on the transducer before calibrating the boost sensor. Man they could smoke! :lolly:
 
Just wanted to update this, I ended up welding a washer to the snapped off stud, and then welded a nut onto the washer. They back right out that way no problem. I wanted to try this before I tried to drill the stud out,i appreciate all the help and advice
 
Just wanted to update this, I ended up welding a washer to the snapped off stud, and then welded a nut onto the washer. They back right out that way no problem. I wanted to try this before I tried to drill the stud out,i appreciate all the help and advice


I had 3 broke on mine and all 3 came out by tapping with a chisel and turning by hand. Should have bought a lottery ticket.

The key is torque them to the correct ft lb. Don’t just crank on the new ones, they have to be able to stretch when stuff gets hot.
 
Just wanted to update this, I ended up welding a washer to the snapped off stud, and then welded a nut onto the washer. They back right out that way no problem. I wanted to try this before I tried to drill the stud out,i appreciate all the help and advice
Ha. I don't mention that trick because I don't trust a done enough to do it. Honestly, we've had a high success rate doing it that way, but the guy that welded them is no longer employed here.

Sent from my motorola one action using Tapatalk
 
Ha. I don't mention that trick because I don't trust a done enough to do it. Honestly, we've had a high success rate doing it that way, but the guy that welded them is no longer employed here.

Sent from my motorola one action using Tapatalk


Yea the issue with welding them is if it doesn’t work it’s even worse to drill lol.
 
Back
Top