Acts like it wants to die, then catches itself

20valve

20valve

Tired 215
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
199
Truck has been doing it ever since I started messing with it about 2 years ago. Started with a 3K GSK, went to 4K's, back to 3K's and finally back to 4K's with the 5-speed swap.

The issue is whenever the truck's RPMs are raised above idle, then truck returns to idle, then goes slightly below idle, catches itself and comes back up. It will happen even if you turn the HVAC controls on, or step on the brakes. It's like when you quickly hit the throttle just enough to raise the RPMs 100 or so. I can see about taking a video later, because it's kind of hard to explain. Mods are located in my sig. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge and haven't checked the pressure yet (honestly not sure where to check it at).

When it happens, the oil pressure drops to zero, then comes back up when it returns to idle. It's starting to annoy me, as I haven't seen another truck with the problem. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
Well, that's where it gets interesting. I installed both the 3k and 4k GSK's with initation plus 3 clicks. Each time, the idle would hang at 1500. Backed them off one click (total of 1 initation, 2 hard clicks), the idle would still hang at 1500 (around 1300 with the 4k kit). I now have them at 1 soft, 1 hard and the idle is finally down to where I think it should be, which is 750. It feels like a gutless wonder above 3k, though (power feels weak above 2500, but it really falls on it's face after 3k). I'm wondering if something internal is going on in the pump. When the idle would hang at 1500, it was a rocketship. All the shims are removed, checked that about half a dozen times. The shutoff solenoid was pulled up tight today, as I couldn't move it up anymore while running.

This is really starting to get annoying to say the least. When it has good power, the idle sucks. When the idle is good, the power sucks. It actually feels slower than a stock 180 truck I rode in a few weeks back. Could the governor itself be messed up internally? The pump/motor was stock when I bought it.
 
^^x2 one initial and 1 hard click isn't going to give you the benefits of having the GSK. Mines at soft click +3 clicks. had to back my idle down to 750 from 1300. goes good though.
 
Even with the idle backed down to where it will almost die (500 or so), the slightest bump of the throttle will cause it to hang at 1500 all day long. We checked the linkage for binding and also to make sure the throttle arm was all the way against the idle screw. Still had the same problem. This was with initation plus 3 clicks and 2 clicks. 1 soft 1 hard seems to be the only thing that will keep the idle right on this, but like was said above, I don't gain the benefits of the GSK with them that loose.

Is there anything else to check inside the governor assembly or with the springs to make sure they are all working right?
 
I have had a similar problem with my 98 12v auto truck since I had the 4k gsk installed (still has the stock 180 pump) . The truck stumbles and stalls when I have to parallel park or if I give it a little throttle and come off it. Does anyone have a link to some good instructions for setting up my springs and tuning my pump?
 
20valve said:
Even with the idle backed down to where it will almost die (500 or so), the slightest bump of the throttle will cause it to hang at 1500 all day long. We checked the linkage for binding and also to make sure the throttle arm was all the way against the idle screw. Still had the same problem. This was with initation plus 3 clicks and 2 clicks. 1 soft 1 hard seems to be the only thing that will keep the idle right on this, but like was said above, I don't gain the benefits of the GSK with them that loose.

Is there anything else to check inside the governor assembly or with the springs to make sure they are all working right?
Click to expand...

when you installed the gsk did you take all the shims out?
 
Yes, pretty sure. There were 4 on each side if I remember right. Two really large and 2 more the same diameter but really thin. The only time it has ran semi-right was when I had Smokem's GSK setup in there. The thing was a rocketship then, but I had the auto and the touchy pedal drove me nuts.

I did pick up a fuel pressure gauge today to test the pressures. Not sure how relevant the fuel system would be to the governor operation, but it may lie somewhere in there.

What are the chances that my GSK's are bad? Just in case anyone is confused, the truck acts like it stalls breifly at lower RPMs, then comes back to idle. I may try to raise the idle up again (tried before, but it would be at either 725 or 900). I also did a rough check on the solenoid rod linkage. Seems like it came in at 2 5/8", which I'm assuming is good. I'm running out of ideas to check, other than starting at the bottom and testing everything. This doesn't seem like a common problem, either.
 
i thought all 12v did what your saying lol. mine and 2 friends trucks do the same as what you are saying but ive never payed any mind to it.
 
when mine was doing that i took a peak inside and noticed that one of my studs was bent... as well as one of the weights inside had ripped itself almost completely off.....

needless to say, i needed a new pump
 
Might be a dumb question, but is it apparently obvious when a stud is bent? As in, I don't have to work a straight edge into the hole to check it, do I? I have thought seriously about having Ken Jones take the pump out and have it checked, since he's about 10 minutes from here. That way whoever works on it can check the whole thing over and get it running right.

Allshownogo, I thought it was normal too. After seeing a few youtube videos and trucks around here, mine is the only one that does it. Guess I'll check the normal stuff tomorrow and see what I can come up with. Also, I probably wouldn't have paid any attention to it either, other than when it does it, my oil pressure bottoms out, then comes back up to normal after 2 or 3 seconds. That's why I'm thinking the truck "thinks" it's shutting off, when it really isn't. I know the oil pressure and governor assembly are two different animals, but it's odd they happen at the same time.

Just in case, anyone know what a reman 215 pump goes for?
 
Have you tried to turn the idle up? It should be higher than 750, but I'm not positive on what a m/t truck should idle at. Auto trucks call for 850 in gear with the a/c on.
 
I think it's the same for manuals. 850 in neutral with the A/C on. Seems like last time I tried to adjust it, it was either 750 or 900. Not that 50 RPM's worth of difference would bother me, but I'm not sure if that's another symptom of a messed up governor/GSK's/fuel system.

Had an idea last night, but not sure if the fuel system works this way. Is it possible that when the truck idles down, the fuel system for some reason cuts or loses it's fuel supply breifly, then gets it back? Seems like if it did, that could describe the problem here.

Might or might not be relevant, but I have a ticking noise coming from my fuel tank area. No electric pump, no hard starts or white smoke. I can only hear it at idle, and it's pretty loud. Is that a symptom of the system sucking air from somewhere, or would I know right away because of leaking fuel?

Last thing, the fuel pressure tester I picked up last night says "Do not use on diesel fuel systems". The last 2 I have seen said that. Is there somewhere to pick up a diesel-specific tester? Or do they not want people hooking the gauge up on an injector line?
 
You need 2 more clicks...


my 8.3 pump did the same , idle was 500-1400rpm:evil
 
If I go 2 more clicks, the RPMs will hang at 1500. It's super quick, yes, but I can't have the engine hanging at 1500 all the time.

I hear everyone talking about how hard it is to get the last click on their 4k springs. Mine were never that way, so it got me thinking if I put 4 hard clicks on it what would happen. Nothing else has worked so far.
 
20valve said:
Might be a dumb question, but is it apparently obvious when a stud is bent? As in, I don't have to work a straight edge into the hole to check it, do I? I have thought seriously about having Ken Jones take the pump out and have it checked, since he's about 10 minutes from here. That way whoever works on it can check the whole thing over and get it running right.

Allshownogo, I thought it was normal too. After seeing a few youtube videos and trucks around here, mine is the only one that does it. Guess I'll check the normal stuff tomorrow and see what I can come up with. Also, I probably wouldn't have paid any attention to it either, other than when it does it, my oil pressure bottoms out, then comes back up to normal after 2 or 3 seconds. That's why I'm thinking the truck "thinks" it's shutting off, when it really isn't. I know the oil pressure and governor assembly are two different animals, but it's odd they happen at the same time.

Just in case, anyone know what a reman 215 pump goes for?
Click to expand...


ya my oil pressure stays up lol. well im curious on what the solution is...
 
Me too. Just picked up a 24v banjo fitting with the test port, so hopefully the fuel pressure will be jacked up. That's my hopes, anyway. I also remember last time I tried to set the idle at 850-900 it would come down really slow from whatever RPM it was reved up to. Almost like the springs were too tight (1 soft 1 hard). I'm going to dig around in there deeper and see if I really did miss a shim. My pencil magnet was too big to fit in there, but I could shine a light in there and move my scribe around, but nothing would happen. At this point, that's the only thing I can think of, other than an actual messed up governor assembly. It's raining right now, so I may not get to it today.

Anyone ever seen more than 4 shims on each side for a governor assembly?
 
20valve said:
Might or might not be relevant, but I have a ticking noise coming from my fuel tank area. No electric pump, no hard starts or white smoke. I can only hear it at idle, and it's pretty loud. Is that a symptom of the system sucking air from somewhere, or would I know right away because of leaking fuel?
Click to expand...

the clicking is the sound of your lift pump resonating along the steel line going back to the tank
 
Is that a sign of it going bad, or is it normal? It sounds like the arm is slapping off the lobe of the cam. If it's normal, good. One less thing to try and figure out.
 
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