Advice Wanted - what next?

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talntid

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Here's a thread of this last weekend's racing.

http://competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190050

You can see in there when it cleans up, etc. 1450 EGTs, 60psi.

I have a nitrous setup, 2 stages... but it has 33 jet in one, 41 jet in the other. I don't know what that comes out to.... I'd like to try the nitrous, but want to ensure I do it safely.... since I have 1450 EGTs, should I be adding more fuel, or... what?

Basically, I want the truck to be faster! ;)

66 / big brother turbo setup. (I have a brsand new gt4202 and a brand new gt4294 if that helps... just need to know what exhaust housing to use)
 
Last edited:
Bigrednightmare said:
What's the rest of your setup?
Click to expand...

94 Dodge 2500 regular cab, short box, 2wd
ENGINE:
-Fully balanced rotating assembly
-Mahle small bowl standard pistons with .080 removed off the top
-Stock lightened 12v rods
-Billet freeze plugs
-Keating Machine billet front cover
-Keating Machine billet side cover
-Industrial injection billet intake plate
-Diesel Pros DP3 cam
-Diesel pros dual valve springs and retainers
-Block is oringed
-Fresh cylinder head, no o-rings or receiver grooves
-ARP 625 studs 12mm
-Steed speed exhaust manifold with external wastegate
-66/86 turbos
-BD intercooler
-Upgraded boots and clamps
-BD valve covers
-BD intake air horn
-Ati dampner
-Jegs electric water pump
-Twin electric fans
-Custom made aluminum radiator
-Summit overflow tank
-New alternator

FUEL SYSTEM:
-Fletcher modified Piers stupid 13mm injection pump
-Two Mallory 5110EFI fuel pumps on separate switches
-1/2” steel braided fuel feed and return lines
-Mallory regulator
-20 Gallon aluminum fuel cell
-Industrial Injection dual feed 5X.022 injectors
-Nitrous kit possibly available
TRANSMISSION:
-Fresh Suncoast Billet Triple Disc 2200-2400 stall Convertor
-BD billet flexplate
-Fresh rebuild using alto red eagle clutches and black kolene steels, extra clutches, etc., etc.
-Suncoast full manual valve body (forward shift pattern)
-ATS Deep pan
-Aux trans cooler with electric fan
-Schaeffers trans fluid
-Billet input, Billet intermediate, and custom Mark Williams Billet output shaft
-Custom Mark Williams slip yoke
REAREND:
-Dana 80
-Disc brake conversion
-Under axle leaf spring mount
-3.54 gears with Locker
-Adjustable traction bars

BODY:
-Newer black paint with flat black stripes.
-Bed has been tubbed for tire clearance
-Roll pan
-Fiberglass front bumper
-Engine bay has inner fender sheet metal cut out
-Dual Taylor aluminum battery boxes in bed. With Exide AGM batteries.
-Battery cut-off switch in roll pan.
INTERIOR:
-Complete gut of factory equipment
-6 pt. roll bar good to 10.0
-2 racing buckets
-Both seats have 5 point harness (drivers harness is one year old)
-Cheetah turbo action shifter
-Power locks and windows function
-Custom dash and console
-Auto meter gauges
5,000 rpm Tach (ran off alternator)
MPH
Exhaust Gas Temperature
Turbo Boost
Exhaust Back Pressure
Coolant Temp
Oil Pressure
Transmission Line Pressure
Transmission Temp
Battery Voltage
Engine coolant temperature
WHEELS AND TIRES:
-Two sets of custom sectioned 15x14 rear wheels
-One set has good year drag slicks 32x14.5-15
-Other set has Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/R 31x18-15 radials
-Fronts are same style as rear wheels with Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/R radials
 
Diesels pick up a ton of power when you add more fuel to them when the turbo setup is large enough to clean it all up.

My daily driver runs clean like your truck when it has the fueling turned down to about 500 HP on the dyno. When I add enough fuel to where it makes a heavy haze, power picks up to a little over 600 HP.

Assuming your truck is 750 HP right now with the current tuneup, you probably have at least another 200 HP worth of air meaning you could add quite a bit of fuel to it and go faster, the downside is your EGT will go up quickly, probably approach 1800 or more.
 
Big Blue24 said:
Diesels pick up a ton of power when you add more fuel to them when the turbo setup is large enough to clean it all up.

My daily driver runs clean like your truck when it has the fueling turned down to about 500 HP on the dyno. When I add enough fuel to where it makes a heavy haze, power picks up to a little over 600 HP.

Assuming your truck is 750 HP right now with the current tuneup, you probably have at least another 200 HP worth of air meaning you could add quite a bit of fuel to it and go faster, the downside is your EGT will go up quickly, probably approach 1800 or more.
Click to expand...


thats interesting.... when do you stop adding fuel?
 
so is the theory... turn up the fuel until the turbos won't clean it up anymore... then hit it with nitrous to clean it up some more?

also, is there a way to turn up the boost?
 
You add fuel till it quits making more power. If you add too much fuel, it will lose power and EGT will actually come back down, so with your hotrod 13mm pump, you probably can add enough fuel to bring EGT back down to the high 1500* range but that won't be where it makes the most power.

In short, you need to either get on a dyno with some sort of fine tuning for the injection pump like an AFC LIVE so you can slow add or take away fueling to find the maximum power potential of your setup. It's possible to slowly advance the fuel plate and make dyno pulls, but it's way easier and faster to use an AFC LIVE in the cab or an adjustable fuel screw like is commonly installed top tier sled pulling injection pumps.

Or you need to get a lot of free time at the track during an open test n tune and add fuel and watch your MPH (trap speed). The higher it traps, the more average HP it made, regardless of a poor launch resulting in a slower 60' time and slower elapsed time.


A few weeks ago I was racing at an old airstrip. Traction was so bad, that I actually ran faster detuning my truck because it spun less the front half of the track. The night before we had made several dyno pulls to find the maximum HP fueling setting along with a few lower power settings. I quickly detuned my truck from 800ish to about 750 HP using my AFC LIVE Race box in the pits and a simple bicycle tire pump to adjust it using the pressure gauge on the AFC LIVE tuner to set rack travel at the pump. I was then able to use the throttle response/smoke control knob as launch control device to control how quickly the fueling came in (dinosaur power traction control).

Anyway, I'd suspect with your compound turbo setup, somewhere around 650 cc's is going to be your maximum power setting and somewhere around 750 cc's is going to be a smokey mess with reasonable EGT control. Every truck is different so you'll have to play with it to find what your combination likes.

http://www.powerdrivendiesel.com/product/afc-live-race/

If you become interested in an AFC LIVE RACE box, be sure to use your CompD5 discount code to save 5%, or call-in and ask for Will or Todd and ask for a "race truck" discount to save you a few bucks so you can afford to actually race!!!
 
Big Blue24 said:
You add fuel till it quits making more power. If you add too much fuel, it will lose power and EGT will actually come back down, so with your hotrod 13mm pump, you probably can add enough fuel to bring EGT back down to the high 1500* range but that won't be where it makes the most power.

In short, you need to either get on a dyno with some sort of fine tuning for the injection pump like an AFC LIVE so you can slow add or take away fueling to find the maximum power potential of your setup. It's possible to slowly advance the fuel plate and make dyno pulls, but it's way easier and faster to use an AFC LIVE in the cab or an adjustable fuel screw like is commonly installed top tier sled pulling injection pumps.

Or you need to get a lot of free time at the track during an open test n tune and add fuel and watch your MPH (trap speed). The higher it traps, the more average HP it made, regardless of a poor launch resulting in a slower 60' time and slower elapsed time.


A few weeks ago I was racing at an old airstrip. Traction was so bad, that I actually ran faster detuning my truck because it spun less the front half of the track. The night before we had made several dyno pulls to find the maximum HP fueling setting along with a few lower power settings. I quickly detuned my truck from 800ish to about 750 HP using my AFC LIVE Race box in the pits and a simple bicycle tire pump to adjust it using the pressure gauge on the AFC LIVE tuner to set rack travel at the pump. I was then able to use the throttle response/smoke control knob as launch control device to control how quickly the fueling came in (dinosaur power traction control).

Anyway, I'd suspect with your compound turbo setup, somewhere around 650 cc's is going to be your maximum power setting and somewhere around 750 cc's is going to be a smokey mess with reasonable EGT control. Every truck is different so you'll have to play with it to find what your combination likes.

http://www.powerdrivendiesel.com/product/afc-live-race/

If you become interested in an AFC LIVE RACE box, be sure to use your CompD5 discount code to save 5%, or call-in and ask for Will or Todd and ask for a "race truck" discount to save you a few bucks so you can afford to actually race!!!
Click to expand...

thanks so much for the data! I am going to get an AFC Live Race.. Looks like it'll make tuning the truck way easier, and I have access to a dyno any time, 24/7....

when does pump timing come into play? Mine is set at 25 now, but it was at 36 (but was extremely slow!).. so obviously there is a big change there...?
 
Timing is very important, when we are tuning on the dyno, when we reach the point where more fuel will not add more power but the exhaust cloud doesn't look ridiculously thick and black (hinting that there seems to be oxygen left but the fuel isn't getting in there quick enough to make power) we slowly add more timing.

If a small timing bump of say 2* picks up 3-5% or more power, we add another 2* and see if the trend continues with the same fueling/rack setting/AFC LIVE pressure setting. Then we'll add a little more fuel to see if it picks up power, we'll pull some fuel away to see what power does, and slowly work our way up.

With your setup, I'd try about 30* for timing and then play with adding more fuel till it no longer adds power. Another tell-tale sign of extra air/oxygen AKA fuel-limited/timing limited setup is a flat HP curve that holds well into 3k plus rpm range. Most turbo/air limited setup I've tuned makes peak power then quickly falls and loses boost pressure as RPM climbs. Most fuel/timing limited setup I've tuned has a flat/plateau shaped HP curve that makes within 10% of peak power from 2700 till 3800 rpm. So for example, it makes 1000 peak HP at 3k but carries 900 HP from 2700 to 3800 rpm, whereas an air limited 1000 HP setup might make 1000 HP at 3000 rpm but quickly falls to 800 HP by 3800 rpm as boost quickly falls.


Every setup is different and your results will vary, but you can be 100% certain that more power is available with your turbo setup if you add more fuel.
 
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