Billet Wheels

Keating Machine, right here in the USA. Pretty sure that Columbus Diesel and Harts Diesel also make their own, or share at the very least

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DieselheaD said:
KTS
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This.


I get quite a few KTS products. Their selection is second to none and their quality has been proven for years.

I really hope the OP is not planning on buying a billet wheel and slapping it in.
 
I had an hc5a built by JEB modern machine, just curious if anyone knows who makes theres.
 
What would be the difference in buying a factory replacement wheel and putting it in place of an existing wheel and doing the same thing with a billet.

Holset parts are balanced individually so changing wheels without a balance job isn't much of an issue.
 
SmokinCAT said:
What would be the difference in buying a factory replacement wheel and putting it in place of an existing wheel and doing the same thing with a billet.

Holset parts are balanced individually so changing wheels without a balance job isn't much of an issue.
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They're shiny...
 
SmokinCAT said:
What would be the difference in buying a factory replacement wheel and putting it in place of an existing wheel and doing the same thing with a billet.

Holset parts are balanced individually so changing wheels without a balance job isn't much of an issue.
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Listen, I can balance a compressor wheel, and a turbine wheel individually on my balancer and put them under .01 gram-inch which is 25 times better than the old Hines balancing machines can touch. Put them together with their nut and thrust collar and then do an assembly final balance and they are not in balance 99% of the time.

Component balancing is a term thrown around way too loosely to make people feel good about tossing parts in. If you took a brand new turbine and a brand new compressor wheel from holset like I have done and put them on a modern balancer as an assembly you can see they do not mesh like you would expect. (I should add holset has the largest amount of allowable error for balance) Let alone a turbine wheel that has collected thousands of miles of soot of differing amounts throwing it off balance.

Component balancing is only good for one thing and that is that specific component. Period. The thrust collar, the nut, and the turbine wheel still carry differing amount of unbalance. Those add up. If all of the imbalance is in-line on that shaft you suddenly have something that is WAY out of balance as an assembly.

Moral of the story: do not buy into component balancing being as good as assembly balancing or even close. For the most part will a turbo live out of balance? yes. It will live quite a while. In a performance app where they are on the ragged edge it is not a good idea though. I will post a balance sheet to give you an idea as to why.
 
Here you go. This was an S475 that looked brand new. Customer wanted a 360 thrust and freshened up as he didn't know the history of it. Kept the shaft and wheel "in time" ie. lined up as they originally were. As you can see they aren't near what my final balance spec is. Doesn't seem that large but when you see the amount of force less than a tenth of a gram out of balance puts on the internals it becomes a big deal. You can also see why it becomes more important in a performance app as the frequency of those forces and the magnitude grows through the RPM range.

s475test_zpsod67mc9y.png
 
Dumb question for Zfaylor...

200Krpm is way way way beyond what a typically accepted OEM speed limit would be for a rotor group of that size. So while your chart is instructive, the high end of the data stack is a bit exaggerated, because most S475s would be in chunks at 200k (in excess of 1000 m/s tip speed).

At what RPM are you actually balancing?
 
nwpadmax said:
Dumb question for Zfaylor...

200Krpm is way way way beyond what a typically accepted OEM speed limit would be for a rotor group of that size. So while your chart is instructive, the high end of the data stack is a bit exaggerated, because most S475s would be in chunks at 200k (in excess of 1000 m/s tip speed).

At what RPM are you actually balancing?
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A dynamic belt drive balancer only rotates the part at ~3000 rpm. VSR is used on smaller rotors for cars and such and those spin it up to 120,000-200,000 range. Highly unnecessary for a rotor of this size to VSR. Belt drive 2 plane dynamic balancing is what 99% of turbo shops and reman centers use on a daily basis. Whether it is an old Hines, turbomax, or my CWT they all do a decent job. The Hines units are fairly dated as far as balancing for a performance item goes though.

Of course 200k is out of the question for this rotor. The algorithm in the balancer extrapolates the data out that far to simply cover all rotor groups. The balancer actually has an ISO standard calculator built in to determine maximum rotor RPM and proper balance specs so it "knows" the rotor will not operate there. The balance sheet is an instructing tool to the customer more than anything as it shows how imbalance has a dramatic effect to bearing life.
 
Leiffi said:
Why ? Because you dont have equipment for it ?
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I don't think you quite grasp the size of the operation we have here...

Go back to playing with L10s and having tea time or whatever it is you do.


I suppose I should answer your question so you don't get bent out of shape:

No the reason being is large rotors don't see the destructive harmonics that a very small one sees. Mostly because they do not spin consistently at 100k RPM or more all day long like a small VGT turbocharger on a modern car.

I am sure a reply is coming soon about how you own 10 VSR machines and you VSR turbos every day before VSR was cool and Europe was wayyy ahead of the curve on VSR.



All in good fun Leiffi don't get yout panties too tight ;)
 
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zfaylor said:
A dynamic belt drive balancer only rotates the part at ~3000 rpm. VSR is used on smaller rotors for cars and such and those spin it up to 120,000-200,000 range. Highly unnecessary for a rotor of this size to VSR. Belt drive 2 plane dynamic balancing is what 99% of turbo shops and reman centers use on a daily basis. Whether it is an old Hines, turbomax, or my CWT they all do a decent job. The Hines units are fairly dated as far as balancing for a performance item goes though.

Of course 200k is out of the question for this rotor. The algorithm in the balancer extrapolates the data out that far to simply cover all rotor groups. The balancer actually has an ISO standard calculator built in to determine maximum rotor RPM and proper balance specs so it "knows" the rotor will not operate there. The balance sheet is an instructing tool to the customer more than anything as it shows how imbalance has a dramatic effect to bearing life.
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Thank you.
 
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