Coil Over/Kelderman

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ralphinnj

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I am not sure the best place to post, but thought maybe some of you experts could opine here. I have a 2003 F350 dually, currently with a 6" lift, but will be going to 8" to allow for 37" x 14" Toyo MT's. I want to get rid of the leafs all around. The options I like the most are:

1. Coil Over (4-link) in the front and Kelderman in the rear or
2. Keldermans all around.

I am hearing mixed opinions of the Keldermans. I thought they were supposed to be the best if money was not the largest concern. I will have a lot of power (~700RWHP), but do not intend to race it or pull with it. It is just a toy. I want a good ride if I take it to work (mostly highway) or tool around town, but also if I step on it to open her up, I want the suspension to work with me, not against me. The Kelderman up and down play is pretty cool, but not if it is unstable, etc. Are there any experts out here that can chime in and tell mehow to best set this up?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, Ralph
 
Up front, Full Traction coilover conversion is your best bet with some King, Fox or sway away coilovers IMO.


In the rear...with that amount of hp. I would do a custom built setup with all the brackets fully welded to the rear axle.


Jesse at Farmboy Fab is a supporting vendor here and has setup and sold a few coilover conversions for the front....he may have some good ideas for the rear as well.
 
I would se if you could get a OUO kit and only go up 8". The OUO kits are hig quality pieces, and can handle jumping 7500 lbs, so I think the 700 hp it should be good to go.
 
OUO is very nice.....I don't know if you could get Dave (owner of OUO) to make a 8" kit....possibly by lying about the tire size you plan to run...otherwise he'll say you need a 10-12" lift to fully flex with those tires.

Lowest I've heard of him making to date was or is (not sure if it was ever finished) was a 12"
 
OUO is great stuff...but not likely to set it up much lower than 14" from what ive seen.

Fulltraction is PLENTY for the front...very well designed kit, with both installation and function in mind. In fact, there are some things about the geometry of that kit that would be more desirable than even the OUO for a daily driver.

Now as far as Kelderman goes...im not the least bit impressed for the money. Dont get me wrong, there is nothing I have against airbags. I do not think they are worth all the hype, but they certainly have some cool features, as well as the AWE factor. My aversion to those kits is the materials and design used. The materials are VERY cut rate quality considering the price you are paying (bushings on every link), and the geometry takes a backseat to the design (upper links attach to the old spring eye mounts, much shorter upper links which leads to pinion angle change throughout travel, etc)

I have seen a lot of people totally happy with their Keldermans...but also just as many unhappy with them. Thats not a good ratio in my mind. In addition to that, of the ones satisfied...how often do you think most of the trucks get driven, and for what purposes?

I just think, for the money, I would have someone custom make a rear 4link based on your needs, and run coilovers (if you dont need adjustability, which i personally think is overrated unless its for shows). If you didnt want to go the custom route, due to whatever reason, i would still feel very confident on Deavers/traction bars/load assist airbags.


Heres a couple of Fulltractions ive sold or installed.

n40508875_32413555_7817.jpg


769515.jpg


Both owners are 100% satisfied in the ride quality and handling improvements. We have some larger coilovers on order for the black one, so we can set up a true dual rate setup, fine tune the valving (his road is gravel, and ROUGH), and get another 2" out of it...to be at about 10.5" overall.
 
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Jesse,

Thanks, we will be calling you....you might be fabbing something sooner than you think!

Ralph

ps, I agree with you 100% about not needing adjustability. Fun for the novelty, generally not that useful. Kind of like those programmers that let you shift programs on the fly....been there, did that. After a week, you just settle into the one you want and never change it. All that means is that we have to find the right height. I am thinking 8"; I have a picture in a brochure of a black dually like mine with an 8" lift and 37"x14" Toyos and it looks perfect.
 
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ralphinnj said:
Kind of like those programmers that let you shift programs on the fly....been there, did that. After a week, you just settle into the one you want and never change it.
Click to expand...


Your mind will change about that the first time you drive your 700rwhp rig in the rain, lol. :D
 
You are probably right, but it cant be worse than the current setup (6" lift, 19.5's with those real hard (100psi) truck tires). When it rains, i spin all 6, with little effort. But I think with mt's and a light foot, and rpms in the 1000-1500 range, it shouldn't be too spin happy.

ralph
 
Thanks for all the input. Here is what we have decided. Coil over 4-link in the front, Kelderman 4-link in the back. This way I retain the load capacity in the back if I want it. Our plan is to take the best kit for the front and to examine all components, fab it up and then replace or strengthen any that don't meet the strength goals we have. Still have to figure out how to measure that, but we think just looking at the components, we'll be able to tell where more beef is needed. Same deal on the Kelderman rear. Beef up some of the parts, mount it all up, then dismantle and send parts out for powder coating. Will do the frame at the same time. That's the plan.

Thanks again, Ralph
 
Basically, both front and rear start out as what the manufacturer offers, then we beef them up. After speaking with a lot of people, I learned that every off the shelf kit has a drawback here or there. We think we have one of the better ones for the front, but know we will have to beef it up a little. We also know the Kelderman kit is good, but will look at every piece and beef some of them up. Then we mock it up on the truck. Make sure it all fits, then take the parts off for powder coat. Same for the frame. When it all comes back, we build. I could go totally custom, but that will probably take longer and probably won't be much different if we start by assuming coil overs in the front and bags in the back.

I ythink if we do the beef up right, it will be pretty damn good.

Ralph
 
I cant think of much I would change on the Fulltraction front...maybe tie the frame mounts in together with a crossmember...thats about it; well built kit.


As for the Kelderman...there is enough work to do there that I wouldnt want to spend the $$$$ on it, but thats your call. Also, you can beef all you want, but its not going to change the joints ability, nor the poor geometry.


Sounds like you really have big goals for this truck...cant wait to see it done.
 
As Jesse mentioned, the Full Traction is pretty solid.

I also agree with his assement of the Kelderman setup for the rear.
For your use/abuse I'd go custom.....
 
Jess@FarmboyFab said:
I cant think of much I would change on the Fulltraction front...maybe tie the frame mounts in together with a crossmember...thats about it; well built kit.


As for the Kelderman...there is enough work to do there that I wouldnt want to spend the $$$$ on it, but thats your call. Also, you can beef all you want, but its not going to change the joints ability, nor the poor geometry.


Sounds like you really have big goals for this truck...cant wait to see it done.
Click to expand...

Thanks. So if you wanted to do air bags in the rear, and did not like the kelderman kit, what would you do? Is there another brand that has better geometry, or is full fabrication the only way to go?

You have recognized my goals here....it is a LOT of work. Started with the engine. Spent 6 months getting that where I wanted it with Tadd and his peeps. Good to go at just over 700RWHP. Did a boat load of powder coating in the engine compartment. Then started on the drive train. New drive shafts, better joints, etc. Then the wheels. I didn't know a tire could cost $700....and I need 6 of them! New front hubs because the stock ones (that can't be serviced) froze up (POS)....F450 slotted rotors for better braking.....Detroit lockers front and rear.....then the suspension that you guys are helping me on. Also, the tires are too wide for the stock body, so I've added the F550 fender flares...how hot does that look? Then I found a guy who made a matching set for the rear fenders on my dually since the rear tires stick out too. They look awesome. Put a 2006 front end on it too. Smokes lights all around. Custom badging. It's taking a long time and some are giving me a lot of $hit about that, but wait til they see this thing. Nothing like it if you ask me.

Ralph
 
Any pictures of this thing? Sounds like a monster.


Without the Kelderman...yes id go fully custom. There are rear 4link conversions available, but they are no better than the Kelderman imo.

What do you fear with a custom setup? Price is not a concern, as they would be comparable...downtime? I really only see it being a week or two difference....when you consider the desired end result...thats no time at all.



I jut think the rear would be severely overmatched by the front setup. Coilovers CAN be setup to both ride well, and carry loads. Too many possible issues with an airbag setup imo.
 
I do have some pics of the work in progress, but its not that impressive yet because the wheels are not in yet and the engine is still hanging on the cherry picker, cab is up, etc. I will definitely post a bunch, or make a video essay when this is done.

What do you mean "overmatched?" Can't coil overs in the front and bags in the back be set up to be the perfect ride, if the right install/parts are used? What issues are there with the airbags that concern you? It's actually not too late to change things since I just gave them the go ahead late yesterday and nothing will be ordered til next week. Maybe I should connect you with the guys doing the work.

Ralph
 
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