Compound of a different flavor....a WG dilemma...Of the VW variety

F

fouckhest

New member
So i am complete newbie to this forum...been subscribed, and lurked for a while...

I build a VW TDI compound turbo...HP = GTB2056vk, LP = BW S247, with a PTE 46mm cut over WG....

the long and the short of my problem is getting the cross over gate to open at the right time...Initially the gate was setup with 25psi springs, no signal with the intention that the gate would open with ~50psi EMP...well i blow past 50psi EMP, boost shoot past 45psi with the quickness...also the internal gate on the LP is safety wired shut...

so the gate is out, and looking to put a lower pressure spring setup in the gate as well as run a signal to the bottom of the gate...my theory now is:

15psi spring in the gate
signal to the bottom only, with a regulator in line, mounted in the glove box for ease of adjustment....

also debating putting the actuator back on the LP internal gate and running that...

here is a quick boost curve, from the video from below...the ECU/program is requesting 30psi, but it blows past that....

video:
[ame="http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk286/fouckhest/?action=view&current=IMG_1304.mp4"]IMG_1304.mp4 video by fouckhest - Photobucket[/ame]

boost request vs actual (note the ECU maxes out at 2600mbar)
boostreqvsact.jpg



and a couple pics for fun...this is the engine before install....
IMG_0546.jpg


one in the bay....
7639017736_3c8d9335be_b.jpg


one of the car....
202625_10151035163551657_521793914_o.jpg


i appreciate any help!
 
That is sweet!

The secondary or second stage gate spring could be to strong. That is relatively low boost for compounds and might still require dumping some around the primary.
 
DISTURBED said:
Sweet build! Whats done to the engine?
Click to expand...

thanks...engine is pretty much built....
rosten H-beam rods, 2.0l OEM pistone (compression lowered to ~17.5:1), 1/2" crank girdle, balanced rotating assembly...head was gasket matched and cleaned up (by me, so nothing crazy)...

anyway, here is my build on the VW tdi forum
TDIClub Forums

Joesixpack said:
That is sweet!

The secondary or second stage gate spring could be to strong. That is relatively low boost for compounds and might still require dumping some around the primary.
Click to expand...

what do you mean by secondary/second stage spring? there is only 1 WG in the system now, that is to bypass the HP turbo....

the spring in the gate was, that is why it is out and planning to lower the spring setup...but in theory we need to bypass it ~75% but not sure that is even possible....
 
Good looking setup, glad to see Mark is tuning this. We make about 75psi overall and only run ~12psi spring on our secondary gate. I would start with a much lighter spring there, and let the primary do more work. It is easy to add a boost controller to it, and "add spring pressure" if you end up with too light of a spring.

(Basically what JSP already said. :kick:)
 
dvst8r said:
Good looking setup, glad to see Mark is tuning this. We make about 75psi overall and only run ~12psi spring on our secondary gate. I would start with a much lighter spring there, and let the primary do more work. It is easy to add a boost controller to it, and "add spring pressure" if you end up with too light of a spring.

(Basically what JSP already said. :kick:)
Click to expand...

yeah mark has been awesome! really looking forward to getting the boost under control so we can start adding some fuel...


what do you mean by "secondary gate"? do you mean the internal gate on my LP turbo? i think that is what you mean, correct?

sorry, so many people use so many different terms...trying to keep things straight...

power goals, well the injectors have R783 nozzles which typically run out of fuel or are limited to ~270whp, so that is obviously going to be my limiting factor....there are some +160% nozzles that can be sourced out of the UK...but right now, i dont have the system proven out enough to even think about those...plan will be to be max out the R783's see how it acts and go from there....

the car has been converted to all-wheel-drive....so my "goal" would be smokey 4 wheel burn outs! ;):drive:
 
Absolutely gorgeous build! Thanks for sharing. Makes me want to tinker with my TDI, but I must resist!
 
fouckhest said:
yeah mark has been awesome! really looking forward to getting the boost under control so we can start adding some fuel...


what do you mean by "secondary gate"? do you mean the internal gate on my LP turbo? i think that is what you mean, correct?

sorry, so many people use so many different terms...trying to keep things straight...

power goals, well the injectors have R783 nozzles which typically run out of fuel or are limited to ~270whp, so that is obviously going to be my limiting factor....there are some +160% nozzles that can be sourced out of the UK...but right now, i dont have the system proven out enough to even think about those...plan will be to be max out the R783's see how it acts and go from there....

the car has been converted to all-wheel-drive....so my "goal" would be smokey 4 wheel burn outs! ;):drive:
Click to expand...

Secondary gate is your external gate that goes from the manifold (that bypass's the secondary charger) and into the primary (atmospheric) charger.

Before you do anything else, try putting the lightest spring you have into that gate, and then use the boost controller to up it as necessary. As soon as you start opening the internal gate on the primary charger you will start loosing power.

when you get to needing bigger injectors, I would look at sending a set to Exergy, they are in the USA and am sure they could build you a much larger set.
 
dvst8r said:
Secondary gate is your external gate that goes from the manifold (that bypass's the secondary charger) and into the primary (atmospheric) charger.

Before you do anything else, try putting the lightest spring you have into that gate, and then use the boost controller to up it as necessary. As soon as you start opening the internal gate on the primary charger you will start loosing power.

when you get to needing bigger injectors, I would look at sending a set to Exergy, they are in the USA and am sure they could build you a much larger set.
Click to expand...


okay gotcha...that makes sense! thanks!

that is the plan, going to put ~15psi spring in it along with a regulator in line, rather than a boost controller...should allow for more finite tuning IMO...thoughts?

oh and as far as the injectors, not sure if i can do that b/c this motor is the PD (pumpe duce) so there are actually nozzles that are installed in the injectors, which these injectors have the secondary pump built in...from all the VW peeps, there seem to be very limited options....
 
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fouckhest said:
okay gotcha...that makes sense! thanks!

that is the plan, going to put ~15psi spring in it along with a regulator in line, rather than a boost controller...should allow for more finite tuning IMO...thoughts?

oh and as far as the injectors, not sure if i can do that b/c this motor is the PD (pumpe duce) so there are actually nozzles that are installed in the injectors, which these injectors have the secondary pump built in...from all the VW peeps, there seem to be very limited options....
Click to expand...

I would start with about a 5psi spring in it, and use the regulator to adjust from there. Get to the point where it opens too early and feels like you are running solely on the primary charger. Tune back from there until you get enough secondary charger to get it where you like the feel.

I would still make a call to Exergy before buying anything else, they may have options for you.
 
dvst8r said:
I would start with about a 5psi spring in it, and use the regulator to adjust from there. Get to the point where it opens too early and feels like you are running solely on the primary charger. Tune back from there until you get enough secondary charger to get it where you like the feel.

I would still make a call to Exergy before buying anything else, they may have options for you.
Click to expand...

sounds great on both....however, just tracked my pkg for the regulator and they shipped it from OH not GA, so now i wont get that till monday....:bs:

i will call them for sure and see what they have to say!

will report back with details ASAP!

:thankyou2:
 
well, got my gate re-installed last night....took it for a test drive....not boosting AS AGGRESSIVELY....but still making too much boost/EMP....

so going to get the LP WG actuator hooked up, well, maybe next week/weekend....but found out i have to travel for work next Mon-Wed, so no car work till then... :/
 
fouckhest said:
well, got my gate re-installed last night....took it for a test drive....not boosting AS AGGRESSIVELY....but still making too much boost/EMP....

so going to get the LP WG actuator hooked up, well, maybe next week/weekend....but found out i have to travel for work next Mon-Wed, so no car work till then... :/
Click to expand...

That was with the lightest spring you have, in it?

What was the total boost, primary boost, and EMP?
 
dvst8r said:
That was with the lightest spring you have, in it?

What was the total boost, primary boost, and EMP?
Click to expand...

well that spring was put in there based on some calc a buddy of mine did...my gate is not easy to get in/out...so based on all the calcs he did and thus far me not listening, i followed his lead...

total boost was still ~45psi

LP~20psi

but it was dark and i was just did a quick loop around my house, so i didnt get a chance to really look at what was going on...i will try and get the car out this weekend and do some video...
 
What total boost are you trying to achieve? It looks like you can plump more pressure into the bottom port of your e gate and lower secondary boost. dropping total boost overall.
 
crackerman said:
What total boost are you trying to achieve? It looks like you can plump more pressure into the bottom port of your e gate and lower secondary boost. dropping total boost overall.
Click to expand...

at this point i am simply trying to get the boost under control...i need to be able to have it limited/regulated to ~30psi so we can start adding fuel and get it tuned....right now it is ~45-50psi....

waiting on my regulator to come in so i can plumb the signal to the bottom of the gate....

we are thinking about opening the top gate on the LP turbo to see what happens, just to ****s n grins
 
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