Filling in fire rings?

Mork,..what about this???

morkable said:
Pat that is backwards. O-Ring is head only, with using ss wire. Fire Ring is a definate ring that has grooves in both the head and block. Which is what is done with my engine. Which in my mind is not needed, but I am probably going to have to live with it.
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Go to Haisley Machines web site and you'll see that their head gasket kit is called "fire ring" and it requires cutting the groove in the head only as they have lazer cut the oem ring out of the gasket

And you can see, by reading their info, why I am confused on some of this with what some of you guys are saying. I'm beginning to think it is a matter of terminology depending on the shop or individual you are talking to.
 
It is not that difficult!:nail:

First, as Lee said, ALL stock head gaskets have a "fire ring". It is the part of the gasket that seals the bore to the head.

O-ringing - A .039" wide x .025" deep groove cut in either the head or the block with a .041 stainless steel wire pressed into the groove. The protrusion of the wire presses into the stock head gaskets fire ring when the head is torqued.

Fire ringing - A groove cut in either the head or block, or even both. The stock fire ring is removed (water jetted) from the stock gasket. A seperate mild steel ring that presses into the grooves when the head is torqued is used to create the compression seal.
 
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i don't understand why not just run with the fire-rings,,, had mine for three years and five trips to florida 740 miles one way ... and see 80lb boost.... my motor finally blew .. the head and fire rings where just fine however the block gave up ..
 
Heres another dilemma as to why i even want to do this in the first place as well. Since the head is off i had noticed there are impressions on the pistons due to the cam im running so i know my clearances are pretty tight. So i was going to fly cut the piston but decided it would be easier to just run a .020 over head gasket but i found that you can only get the fire rings in .105 and .118 thickness. To me it just seems like you would never get enough crush on a .118 fire ring with a .020 over head gasket for it to last.
 
I've seen .125 fire rings. You'd still need to clean up the groves to fit them if they were cut for a .105.

SO just that we have everything here, the groves were cut for a std thickness gasket, on one surface for a .105 ring? Now you want to go .020 over?
 
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That is correct Joe. I only want to go .020 over on the head gasket if i can get a head without any fire rings cut in it. Im worried that using fire rings with a .020 over gasket wont produce enough crush on the fire ring and cause premature failure. But if i dont go with a .020 over head gasket and use my current head and fire rings i know the tolerances are in the danger zone and a valve could slap a piston.
 
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Do you have pics of the piston tops?

yoshi470 said:
Heres another dilemma as to why i even want to do this in the first place as well. Since the head is off i had noticed there are impressions on the pistons due to the cam im running so i know my clearances are pretty tight. So i was going to fly cut the piston but decided it would be easier to just run a .020 over head gasket but i found that you can only get the fire rings in .105 and .118 thickness. To me it just seems like you would never get enough crush on a .118 fire ring with a .020 over head gasket for it to last.
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Depending on how much they are contacting the piston you may be able to get buy with using a couple degree -key and achieve what you want. Just depends. Also you should get those valves checked out of the head to be sure they are not bent.
 
Buddy of mine had fire rings for 100k miles. One finally let go and ended up trashing his head. It was a daily driven vp truck that was over 600hp and running 12's.
 
We have had 2 trucks now that have had fire rings (both installed by haisleys). One was just in the head and the other was in the head/block. Both saw extreme heat cycles and one had over 100,000 miles on it when the truck was sold. Never once had a problem!.

The major issue with the fire-rings is that you have to do the required re-torques or there will be failurs. I think this is the main reason why street trucks have problems with them (guys are having them installed that don't know how to do a proper head torque or are to lazy to do it and then ***** and complain about the failure afterwards).

All in all...nothing will hold boost like a fire-ring unless you want to try tig welding the head to the block from inside the cylinderLOL
 
I use fire rings on all past and current engines. Hot re-torque is mandatory once you bring it up to operating temp on the initial install. I ran 80,000 miles in 2 years daily driving, towing and racing in the F350 CC LB. Refreshed the engine for the regular cab transfer and the seal was perfect.
 
My head had 3 cracks. Each around the exhaust valve on cylinder 3,4,5 and going from the valve seat to the injector hole. Is it junk? Anybody have a head forsale?
 
ill sell you a head, for a 94 geo since you listed in the wrong section as well as who knows what kind of head your looking for
 
you can run a .020" over gasket and then modify the groove depth to get the desired crush back. Call haisley and tell them what you are doing, I'm sure Van can get you hooked up.
 
Firering fix

Hamilton Cams said:
you can run a .020" over gasket and then modify the groove depth to get the desired crush back. Call haisley and tell them what you are doing, I'm sure Van can get you hooked up.
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So when you say "modify," you are talking filling the groove,...right?
 
Last I knew Nyes Automotive in Muncie was doing most of Haisleys head work. I think Van and Kurt only do the heads for there trucks. When I was picking my head up from Nyes (fire ring job) there was a Haisley shop truck there picking alot of parts up. (couple of blocks and heads) Nyes is a great shop that does top notch work. They have a engine dyno and I thought that they were working on getting a trans. dyno. You might give them a call and see what they suggest.
 
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