Gentlemen, I need some 12 valve wisdom

The lower seat supplied with the Pacbrake springs are machined wrong from the factory. .020" needs to be removed from the underside of the seat and then springs need to be reset. IIRC
I'm with everyone too on making sure you have full throttle. Set a brick or something on the throttle pedal and see if the fueling arm on the rear of the pump is coming forward and hitting the stop screw.
 
@ stubz - Ok, Just set a cinder block on the gas peddle. It will take the linkage 100%. It hits the upper screw throttle stop for the linkage arm. With out taking a flat head and screwing in that stop it looks like that is full movement.
I have access to an old Bridgeport and can mill off .020". You said IIRC, Should I do a google search to confirm the .020" I will try to mill that out tomorrow if the rain clears up here.

@ straight 6 roar - Thank you for your input. It is nice to see some one else who has the same turbo and can give some pointers. I am leaning towards the 7mm DV from Ducky because they would give me more fuel for the upcoming compounds. Has anyone used them? I am open to any of them so if Not- What ones do you all like?

@Chevota84 - Yes, I have a 2095 rack plug in but forgot to mention it in the list.
 
In on this to learn because I have nothing to share but if I come into problems on my build ill come back to this thread alot of good info btw good luck with your truck man.
 
Thanks man looks like you put alot of work in before asking questions if I had anything to add that you didn't know I would but it looks like you've got it coverd better the me lol.
 
70440charger said:
No surprise here its a 3.73.

How would I go about testing the head portion of it? Just leave it hooked all hooked up on the intake side and pressurize it from the turbo through the intercooler and to the head?

It seems almost to have more usable power if I put a 10000lbs trailer on it.

Is it normal for a free rev to take 3.5 seconds to go from 750 to 4000rpm
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I've got 3.55 gears, so you's should make it easier to spin the tires.

I plugged the exhaust tip, and put a cone over the intake of the compressor, filled it to ~35psi with some smoke and looked around for leaks. I was leak free, but it was more or less for piece of mind. Definitely adjust your valves though. Takes like 30min and it's good to know for sure they're right.

You know, my truck feels the same way. It is faster obviously with less weight, but it seems like at a full load, it probably makes more power. Nothing that I could get to load on a dyno. I think that's just normal. Load = Heat = Velocity = turbine speed up = power = cracks in head if too hot! ha ha

3.5 seconds is not normal at all. When I don't have it in gear, mine braps like a hot rod gasser. It just doesn't have much power before the turbo. I've got haisley 4k springs on stock perches. For the price, it might be worth switching from what you've got. I did a bunch of homework on what will give you a strong idle and still have fuel at high RPMs.

TrailTamer said:
Another thing, you said the fuel pressure is around 50psi with the stock lift pump BUT it don't get less than 45 psi with that big injectors which is odd, you should be able to really labor the stock lift pump with what you have.
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He has a pusher pump to it. 50psi doesn't seem odd at all if you count that.

straight 6 roar said:
Need more fuel and boost. 42 psi and 1250* isn't gonna make that much power on a 12v. At least under 3200 rpm anyway. I dyno'd my special and could only pull those exact numbers because I couldn't get it loaded hard enough (inertia dyno). It did 426 hp and low 900s for torque. On the street I saw around 50 psi a few times with the gate cranked down and it pulled considerable harder.

Add some DVs (somewhere in the 60-100 cc's region) and set the wastegate to around 55 psi and you'll pick up a lot of power.

Also for better manners and less smoke on the street, get a stiffer and longer spring for the AFC.
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400-450 hp is right on par for a stock 12V head with 40-45psi running through it.

I don't think he needs to be adding more fuel to it yet. He needs to find out what his issue is first. He should have more than enough fuel right now.

I also don't think he needs a stiffer spring. The stock spring can be set up just fine for up to about where he's at. If he sorts out his issues and is making 55psi or more, then that's definitely a great thing to do.
Here's a great thread for that:
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102369

97rada said:
If your pump was benched with the springs in place, I would leave it alone
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Who did your pump work? Was it someone in the diesel performance world, or just a Bosch Pump shop?



I personally like to set my gov springs only two clicks in. Most can rev the Haisley 4k springs to 4500rpm, and I can only get about 4100 out of mine (with fuel) having them set so loose, but I am NEVER at 4100 anyways, so I don't care. What I do pick up is a very strong idle (stronger than stock) and I can start my truck at negative temps without having to hit the throttle at all. That's what I was going for though.

When you say you've gutted the AFC, what do you mean by that? You might want to try and pick one up if you've 100% gutted it. The diaphragm and foot sliding is a huge step in tuning. Also if you gutted it, but you didn't make sure the foot is pushed fully forward, you're just never going to get your 'boosted fuel'.

With your slow reving, it really sounds like a pump issue to me. Do you know what pump you have? And I agree with some people saying throttle linkage. Disconnect everything and use your hand to brap it. See if ti goes any faster when you do that.
 
Sorry if I missed the part where he said he have a pusher for the lift pump.

40-45 psi = 400-450 hp? I wish that's true.

My 12v (in my signature and it's mods) will run at 50 psi of boost. Stock, probably original turbo too and that's with severe leaking intercooler and pipes. I have no idea why or how but that's what it can and did.

I still think you have insufficient fueling.

Also after you have this figured out, then what I'll like to try is to get a turbo blanket on your turbo to help the spooling even more considering it'll be greatly appreciated as its a manual truck and it's a bit larger turbo to start with also.
 
TrailTamer said:
Sorry if I missed the part where he said he have a pusher for the lift pump.

40-45 psi = 400-450 hp? I wish that's true.

My 12v (in my signature and it's mods) will run at 50 psi of boost. Stock, probably original turbo too and that's with severe leaking intercooler and pipes. I have no idea why or how but that's what it can and did.

I still think you have insufficient fueling.

Also after you have this figured out, then what I'll like to try is to get a turbo blanket on your turbo to help the spooling even more considering it'll be greatly appreciated as its a manual truck and it's a bit larger turbo to start with also.
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Yeah, so 40-45psi on a stock HX35 probably isn't going to get you there, but on a s464, I think that's the ball park figure. (Don't ask me specifics. From a flow perspective, I would think compressed air is compressed air and the compression should make the air just as hot as a bigger turbo doing it. Maybe it's the lower back pressure that makes a larger turbo make more power at the same boost level?).
 
@ Stubz I found A link that talks about the governor spring base being .030" too tall for it to idle properly and also rev to 4k but it was only someone mentioning it from another thread. Does that sound right? If some one else has a link or knows where it is could you post the link here. If I find the right one I will post it here for others.

@ cornelius - While testing stuff yesterday, I re-tested the free rev ( The other time I tested it was before it was benched) and it now takes between 1.25- 1.5 seconds to free rev from the 850 rpms to 4000rpm. Coming from a gasser background it still seems slow but these things are rotating a lot of mass.
I got a chance to test my 0-60 last night and it was about 11 seconds and if you account for my error it is probably about 9.5 seconds.
By "gutted" I meant that I took out the foot and the plate to test run the truck and see how much difference it made. After I was done testing I put the afc back together. I don't really like driving a truck that smokes everywhere I go :)
I will check out the haisley 4k gks.
THANKS for the link! I had read that one a while back but re-read it and learned a ton about the importance of the afc foot hight. Its funny how the more I learn, the more I get from Smokem's posts....
Also, I think you are right about needing to figure out my underlying issues first. I may not have enough fuel like some of the other guys said but I want to find what is making it so so right now and then add more fuel to it.
As for where my pump was benched. It is not a performance shop. They are the local Bosch shop and have always done well for me before but I was only asking them to do slight bumps in power then. This time I racked the barrels and did all the mods, then took it to them to have it benched and balanced. Is there something else internally that a performance shop would have done? The guys that builds the pumps is really good but doesn't like to crank up pumps except on his own truck. He said 300cc is about as much as he ever sees out of a 180hp p7100. Is this true? Or was there fuel still on the table? With that being said. It is very smooth now, so he defiantly got the balance right.

@ TrailTamer- Thanks for your input. I hadn't considered a blanket on this turbo but I was planning on heat wrapping and blanketing the compounds when I got them on. I am going to go look up a turbo blanket for it now.


Questions:
1. Could My industrial exhaust manifold be acting effectively as an Exhaust brake and choking down my motor at higher rpms and keeping it from really getting after it? What would the symptoms be?

2. What does the "high idle stop screw" (that is what is called on the Bosch diagram) do? Does it need to be adjusted at all? This is

3. When these pumps are running (Governor spinning at idle), does the Governor lever come up? Because with my truck off it sure doesn't look like the lever would touch the AFC foot at all. It just looks like it would dive under and go straight back to the fuel plate.

Today's Game plan is: 1. Swap fuel filters out for fresh one. These have about 10k on them.
2. Pressure test the crap of ever part of the intake and exhaust system!
3. Take the plate and foot back out and see if there is a change (i am starting to take video because I can't keep track of all the different test and what they did) now that the pump has been worked on.
 
@ 95Cummins - NO, I checked it about 6 months ago but it is possible it slipped (its a choke cable). I checked it out but it was dark and I did it with a flash light so could have missed something. It wouldn't take it being off by much to affect WOT. Since this is a conversion, I have had my struggles with the Shut off Arm. I had the factory shut off die and then a replacement one die- so at that point I wired in a choke cable. In hind sight, I should have done that from day one. So much easier and more reliable, it is not for everyone cause it is one extra thing to do while shutting the truck down. We have a farm so it fits right in with all the other shut off cables I mess with.
 
95cummins5.9 said:
You have made sure the shut off arm is getting full travel to the up/on position?
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95cummins5.9 said:
There is a woodruff key on that shaft. Also
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That was the first thing that came to mind and what I suggested a while back. If you haven't definitely take a look at this. I had my woodruff key fall out and it felt like I had 10% of the fuel until I figured out what had happened.

And 300cc is not bad, and I was asking to see if he installed the gov springs and what not, but as long as you racked the barrels before he balanced it and it's smooth, you should probably be good to go.
Most guys see over 500cc out of a 180hp pump though after benching it with larger DV's and then what you have done.
 
When i switched from the factory shutoff solenoid to a pull cable it was night and day difference as far as top end fueling was concerned, went from clearing up fuel to smokey as hell.
 
@ 95Cummins - I just got a PM from Smokem and I am going to look seriously into what he recommends.

@ Cornelius - Tell me more about where this Woodruff key is and how I can tell if it in the right spot. I haven't notice it before. And To be honest, I was expecting a lot more fuel from benching it. Does anyone see something that I could have missed while doing my pump mods or did my guy just not really work it over?
 
70440charger said:
@ 95Cummins - I just got a PM from Smokem and I am going to look seriously into what he recommends.

@ Cornelius - Tell me more about where this Woodruff key is and how I can tell if it in the right spot. I haven't notice it before. And To be honest, I was expecting a lot more fuel from benching it. Does anyone see something that I could have missed while doing my pump mods or did my guy just not really work it over?
Click to expand...

DV's will gain you quite a bit of fuel, but you should contact a reputable diesel performance pump shop if you want to 'max' it out.
Seth seems to be popular around here:
https://www.facebook.com/farrelldieselservice?fref=ts

The woodruff key is a locating key on the shaft coming out of your pump directly in front of the place where you'd toss in governor springs. Your woodruff key can fall out when you take that bracket that attaches to the shaft off (when messing with the shut off solenoid). Mine did. Then it's spring loaded to return to zero fuel, so if the key fell out and you put your fuel shut off back together, you will only get a percentage of the fuel. I still don't have a woodruff key because I couldn't find one that fit, so I spun the shaft to 100% fuel, and then clamped the bracket on at that point.
I did some pump stuff one night and drove to work the next day not knowing the key fell out and I couldn't build 10psi, 100% didn't smoke even before boost, and felt about half as fast as stock was. There was NO way in Hell I could do a burnout. It took me about 5min of looking before I figured out what had happened, and I took that opportunity to clean all that crap so I could see it next time (it was grimy), so including that it took about 30min to fix, but should only take 5-10.

^that's long, but I tried to be pretty detailed. ;-)
 
@ Cornelius - I just visited Seth's facebook page. It looks legit. I wish I had known about them two weeks ago. Their Max/ Balance package is only $260 and I paid $325. I am sure they would have done a better job since they are geared towards the performance market. I am going to save up some more freaking pennies :( and send it in but It is going to take a while.
I am going to take off my afc here in a little bit and see if that key is where it should be. I have looked at it and it looks ok but with out seeing where the lever is inside I can't be 100% sure of the relationship.
 
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