Jasper 47RH - Upgrades?

[Bersaglieri]

So, I bought a donor 160hp 12v and 47RH for my Excursion Cummins swap. The trans has about 30,000 miles on a Jasper rebuild from 2015. My goal is to do minimum mods possible to give this thing a fighting chance without going deep into the transmission. If you guys think adding a shift kit or anything would end it's life early, I'll toss the trans in the way it is.

I called Jasper and to my surprise the fella there actually gave me some build info on the trans. He claimed it has 5 pinion planetary, 8 clutches instead of 5 in the overdrive unit, a billet cover single disk with stock internals, all the transmission updates, and extra clutches somewhere else that I couldn't make out, maybe he said forward drum. Anyways, the fluid is spotless and I plan to drop the pan this week and see what's inside.

For now, I need it to hold between 300-400hp in a 8500lb Excursion with 3.73's. Don't plan to tow much of anything.

Single or Double Deep Pan?
Transgo kit?
Billet strut, anchor, servo, accumulator?


I feel like a triple disk, input shaft, and aftermarket valvebody is unnecessary at this point, but I don't claim to be an expert. I've been reading what I can, but time is working against me. I'm trying to get this project on the road in the next 2-3 weeks.

Thanks guys!

 

[joefarmer]

You're at the edge of the stock input shaft at 3-400 depending how you drive it and tire size. Definitely make plans to keep the fluid cool.

 

[Bersaglieri]

You're at the edge of the stock input shaft at 3-400 depending how you drive it and tire size. Definitely make plans to keep the fluid cool.

I don't do standing burnouts or boosted launches these days, but I do enjoy rolling into the throttle to feel that healthy 12v torque. The Excursion has 33's on it at the moment, however 35's are not out of the question down the road. That being said, how hard would it be for a novice with a ATSG manual to put a billet input into this thing?

I'll likely run my extra large B&M Super Cooler and 400psi trans lines I had on my 47RE. There shouldn't be junk in it, but I'll have to find a way to flush it regardless. The pan depth will probably depend on how low it hangs in comparison to everything else under there. My old 47RE had a single deep, but I see alot of aftermarket builds with double deep.

 

[bateman]

I’ve got a basic rebuild with a shift kit, billet anchor, strut, etc. triple disc that I think is a cheap brand and I’m pretty sure I’m over 400hp. It locks up pretty hard and I drive it hard nearly every day. It has been solid for over 75k miles now.

I do have 35’s with 4.10’s so maybe the gears are helping. Or maybe it will snap the shaft today who knows haha.

 

[Bersaglieri]

I’ve got a basic rebuild with a shift kit, billet anchor, strut, etc. triple disc that I think is a cheap brand and I’m pretty sure I’m over 400hp. It locks up pretty hard and I drive it hard nearly every day. It has been solid for over 75k miles now.

I do have 35’s with 4.10’s so maybe the gears are helping. Or maybe it will snap the shaft today who knows haha.

Anyone with Cummins torque is one bad day from a tranny rebuild :hehe: What stall in your converter, stock or lower? Motor mods?


Speaking of torque, DPC's website states the TQ limit of the black reman single as being 950 ft/lbs. A 12v with a little fuel and mild turbo can hit that and I'd say my Jasper single won't hold 950 ft/lbs. I didn't want to, but maybe a triple needs to be considered here. I also don't want to push the pedal down and have it rev to the moon and barely move until lockup kicks in. Defeats the point of 12v low end.

 

[bateman]

Stock injectors and turbo and all the fuel mods, racked barrels etc.

The stall is high. Not sure exactly but it will brake stall over 2k rpm and 20psi. It’s just like you describe. I blow right through it until lockup happens. It was probably meant for about half the torque I’m guessing.

 

[1320Cummins]

Good hydraulic control is key to making your current trans setup reliable for your power goal.
The Transgo SKTFOD-Diesel kit is good stuff in my experience. You might be wise to just opt for a professionally modified and bench tested VB from a reputable vendor like Firepunk, BD, etc.
I mention this because someone might have already made VB modifications that will possibly complicate installing a Transgo kit.
A good single disc TC will be plenty adequate when combined with beyond stock TCC apply pressure.

My experience with the stock input shaft has been positive at your power goal.
But! No locked shifts (up or down!) and stick to a mild TCC strategy like that of the 94 to 99 dodge application.

If you decide to upgrade the input, Rock Auto has the Sonnax piece at a good price - More Information for SONNAX 22121B01

Upgraded band strut anchor are must haves with elevated line pressure.

I personally would also add the Sonnax forward servo cover (22827-01), Superior manual shaft support (Superior K071), and a bonded gasket (Parker Stat-O-Seal) under the forward band adjustment jam nut
- McMaster-Carr

 

[Bersaglieri]

Stock injectors and turbo and all the fuel mods, racked barrels etc.

The stall is high. Not sure exactly but it will brake stall over 2k rpm and 20psi. It’s just like you describe. I blow right through it until lockup happens. It was probably meant for about half the torque I’m guessing.

You're probably where I want to be with this motor. Decent power, responsive, enjoyable to drive. Probably "stock stall". My low stall converters were miserable to drive, worse to tow. If it's a budget triple it might lack decent fluid coupling. Phil restalled my Suncoast 44 series triple and it was the best converter I ever ran. Good coupling with a stall stall speed makes for a good all around converter.

Good hydraulic control is key to making your current trans setup reliable for your power goal.
The Transgo SKTFOD-Diesel kit is good stuff in my experience. You might be wise to just opt for a professionally modified and bench tested VB from a reputable vendor like Firepunk, BD, etc.
I mention this because someone might have already made VB modifications that will possibly complicate installing a Transgo kit.
A good single disc TC will be plenty adequate when combined with beyond stock TCC apply pressure.

My experience with the stock input shaft has been positive at your power goal.
But! No locked shifts (up or down!) and stick to a mild TCC strategy like that of the 94 to 99 dodge application.

If you decide to upgrade the input, Rock Auto has the Sonnax piece at a good price - More Information for SONNAX 22121B01

Upgraded band strut anchor are must haves with elevated line pressure.

I personally would also add the Sonnax forward servo cover (22827-01), Superior manual shaft support (Superior K071), and a bonded gasket (Parker Stat-O-Seal) under the forward band adjustment jam nut
- McMaster-Carr

I agree with your post. The biggest upgrades for these transmissions are a converter and fluid control [valve body]. And, with the increase pressures comes the billet small parts to hold it together.


That being said, since I know the current converter is a stock one with a upgraded cover, a converter upgrade will make this truck enjoyable to drive and increase efficiency. I always hated the blow through feel of stock converters. I'm thinking a triple disk converter and a deep pan will get this on the road and allow me to adjust my linkage properly. Once on the road I can check my pressures and see where they are set. I have read a few places that Jasper puts Transgo kits in the V/B at the factory. If the pressures are low I can drop the pan and do valvebody work and the strut, anchor, servo, accumulator.

I'll have the pan off today and report back what I find.

 

[kawi600]

Im not a fan of the single disc converters especially if the computer likes to shift into OD and lockup insanely early despite proper TPS adjustment.. it lugs and you will overheat the lockup clutch due to slip.
I put a lockup lockout switch on mine so I dont have that happening again.

 

[bateman]

I would put this transmission on you cheap if the time was right. I’ve got a bit more to save for a firepunk trans.

I thought of this thread last night after work and laid into mine a few times and I wouldn’t really say it blows through the converter. The speed seemed to climb nicely the truck just makes a ton of noise haha. Wish I knew what converter it was and if I had the extra clutches in the trans, but I can’t complain either way. It’s been completely solid for me for 75k or more.

 

[Bersaglieri]

I talked to Phil about converters and we both agreed a triple was a better investment for the long term. He suggested the low stall triple [300-400rpm below stock], but I was leaning towards a stock stall since this Excursion is much heavier than my 2nd gen Dodge. Plus, my experiences with low stall converters has never been good.

Then, I found out about the little CV-19 triple disc converter shortage. I called and emailed a pile of places after Phil said he was backlogged on converters. Luckily, Firepunk came through and had what seemed like the only DPC triple disc in the country that wasn't spoken for.

The converter and box say RM3, which I believe to be the low stall triple. While I was there I picked up a used deep pan and used thicker stamped SFI Flexplate. I figured it can only help to add some extra fluid and a little strength. Super good folks up there. They went above and beyond finding a converter and giving me a good deal on some used items. They also had Pampers Cruisers on sale, so naturally I grabbed a box of those as well.

Parts list so far:
New - DPC RM3 Triple Disc
Used - Maghytec 727-DD
Used - Stamped SFI Flexplate

The current plan is to drop the pan and see if there are any improved/billet parts inside.


Flexplate Issue: I was test fitting the stamped Flexplate onto the crank and it seems the tabs won't let it sit flush on the crank the way the stock one does. Maybe by design the bolts draw it in, but I feel like that might distort it. Seems this is common enough that PDD mentioned it in their Flexplate video and a few threads say the same. For the sake of time, I might just toss the stocker back on and let it be the fuse for my input shaft until a rebuild occurs.

 

[Red Sleeper]

Good call on the triple disk. You can always re-stall the converter later on, now that you have one.

I to prefer stock stall on my triple disk. Started with 400rpm lower than stock and went back up to stock stall not long after on my 05. Maybe I’m getting soft in my older years.

 

[Bersaglieri]

Getting old and soft?...I hated my first "low stall" when I was 24, lol. I've had a tight DTT single [1250rpm flash], a Suncoast 44 [1400rpm flash], and a DPC stock restalled Suncoast 44[1800rpm flash]. The stockish flash was the best overall. The first two just grabbed too low with 3.54 gears and 35's, especially for towing. I actually sat through a green light pulling a loaded 40ft trailer at 10,000ft. All smoke, truck moved forward like 12ft, and the light went red. I put it in 4LO to make the next one. :hehe:

Like you said, I'll give this one a shot, if it's too tight I know Phil can swap things around and get me where I need to be. That was part of our conversion is why spend the money twice, go triple and just change stalls as power goes up. I'm hoping with a stockish turbo and 1500ft altitude it'll work better than I expect.


I'm on the fence with flexplates. I'm not a fan of this stamped one I have, I'm thinking a stocker or Goerend. Goerend is the lowest cost USA made one I've seen at $255. Goerend Billet 5.9 Flexplate Dodge Cummins Diesel | MTS Diesel Truck Part Sales

 

[jasonc]

A heavy excursion with big tires, I wouldn't even think about a stock stall with a 400hp setup. You would just be flashing through your conv all the time until lock.

 

[bateman]

Is stamped the one that is known to crack?

 

[Bersaglieri]

A heavy excursion with big tires, I wouldn't even think about a stock stall with a 400hp setup. You would just be flashing through your conv all the time until lock.

You might be right. I figured if a 6700lb 12v with 35's, 3.54, smallish towing compounds and 500hp didn't like a low stall that a 8600lb Excursion with 3.73, 35's, and 400hp wouldn't like it either. I've learned that "low stall" can mean different things to different people. I had some bad experiences with what I would call "super low" stall. Hopefully Phil's triple will be a good compromise compared to those other two I had. I'll say that the "stock" restalled Suncoast 44 I ran flashed to 1700-1800 with nice fluid coupling, if I end up with something like that, I'll be satisfied.

Is stamped the one that is known to crack?

I think the only ones known to crack were the stock ones and ATS. These stamped ones are used on ALOT of builds under 1000hp. I don't doubt it's strength, I just don't like how it's lining up. Evidently, I'm not the first to have this issue.

 

[kawi600]

On my truck with a hamilton cam, 3k GSK, 4.10s and a 'low stall' converter from DPC it revs a bit before it really does anything. even then it doesnt seem to make as much power as it did when I had the lower stalling DTT single converter on it.
Does a higher stall converter fit the truck better when towing heavy or at higher HP? Doesnt seem as fun to drive as the one I had before.
Will be installing tow twins and pulling more weight soon.

 

[Bersaglieri]

I dropped the pan on this 47RH. I don't think it has the plastic servo, but it does have a stock 3.8 lever and strut. Not sure if anyone can tell, but I am guessing it doesn't have a Transgo kit either. The pan and fluid was pretty clean. Looks like some junk fell in here when the dipstick grommet was replaced. I also found the filter to be separated on one side. This was behind a 100% stock 160hp 12v.

Here are a few pictures, of course they flipped on their side, not sure how to fix that.

What would you guys do? Put it in and check the pressures? Do a TFOD, HD2, or a real valve body while it's on the table? Pan off billet parts kit?

From what I have read over 120psi can bend the stock strut. However, to hold 300rwhp 120psi minimum would be necessary. I read 140psi for 350-400hp. Transgo claims the TFOD kit maxes at 125psi 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 150psi in 4th and the HD2 maxes at 137psi 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 160psi in 4th.

I know I'm just delaying the inevitable, but also trying to keep it alive for a while before the full rebuild.