Keeps chewing up retainers/thrust

2007 5.9

2007 5.9

West Coast Dyno Modifier
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
1,927
I've got a older style 181/210 107LSA, and it's been in for around 3 years.

I have had to replace the cam retainer one already and now I'm looking to do it again.

Last time the gear was rubbing on the retainer and wore a few hunted thousandths groove in the retainer. Purchased a new retainer and gear, installed it and now it's rubbing again.

Any clue as to why this happens, and how to prevent it from continuously happening??

2007 CR.
 
Is there any end play in the cam after its installed with the new retainer? What retainer are you using?
 
Can is installed with Cummins spec end play, and I purchased new gear and retainer directly from Cummins.

My installer is a Cummins mechanic.
 
I had this issue. My cam gear was not all the way on. I got it fixed the last cam swap I did. Replaced retainer and put the gear on the new cam myself. I did have some wear on the retainer. The cam should be sticking out about 90 thousandths from the gear when it is seated all the way on the cam. Maybe this is your issue, maybe not.
 
Yes I'm talking about the half moon steel plate held on with two bolts that goes between the cam gear and the block.

Spring pressure is Hamilton 110's from 3 years ago.

Pretty sure the gear was on with both times...


This time the sound of the gear hitting the retainer is loud!!! Only does it on a warm/hot engine.

Cold start and up to operating temp...no noise. After its warm, sounds like a little man in the timing cover knocking to get out.

Is it possible for a cam to be short??

I'm just lost...I hate to keep throwing $$$ at new gears/retainers...and the added danger of those shavings floating around in my pan.
 
We need to isolate which side the thrust is coming from and then what is causing the thrust. It is either a mechanical or a hydraulic force. Do you have pics of the old thrust plate?

Zach
 
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On the 94-02 cams, the rear most journal is a bit more narrow than the all of the other journals. Is it the same way on the CR cams? I would assume not since the CR blocks don't have a cam plug on the back of the block and are sealed with an o-ring instead.
 
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I don't have pics or the old thrust...but I'll do my best to describe.

On the thrust surface aginst the cam gear, approx the bottom third of the thrust has a groove cut in it from the gear rubbing/hitting it.

Approx is a few hundred thousandths...but enough to throw a cam sensor code along with a wicked banging noise comming from the timing cover.

First gear I was using the supplied bolt on gear retainer torqued to spec...this last time I didn't re install the gear retainer...

Zach I was planning in calling the shop on Monday to pick your brain, but I posted here to see if I'm the only one that has had thus issue.
 
The cam looks good? I was thinking maybe it was cut with some excessive lobe taper that might be pulling it. Seems to me that would want to walk the cam towards the back of the block.
 
Cam looked good when we installed it 3 years ago, but to be honest, I wouldn't know how a good/bad CR cam should look.

When we changed the gear/retainer last year we did it with the cam still in the block, so no idea of condition of lobes.
 
2007 5.9 said:
Yes I'm talking about the half moon steel plate held on with two bolts that goes between the cam gear and the block.

Spring pressure is Hamilton 110's from 3 years ago.

Pretty sure the gear was on with both times...


This time the sound of the gear hitting the retainer is loud!!! Only does it on a warm/hot engine.

Cold start and up to operating temp...no noise. After its warm, sounds like a little man in the timing cover knocking to get out.

Is it possible for a cam to be short??

I'm just lost...I hate to keep throwing $$$ at new gears/retainers...and the added danger of those shavings floating around in my pan.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how mine sounded, the gear was about 1/8 to 1/16 not all the way on the cam. This was during my first cam swapp when I took the cam and had the gear pressed on the new cam. This last swap I did, I pressed the gear off the old and on the new cam myself. I inspected the old cam before I pressed the gear off. This is when I noticed it still was not all the way on and had wear on the thrust washer, retainer. I had already ordered a new retainer just in case.
 
2007 5.9 said:
Cam looked good when we installed it 3 years ago, but to be honest, I wouldn't know how a good/bad CR cam should look.

When we changed the gear/retainer last year we did it with the cam still in the block, so no idea of condition of lobes.
Click to expand...

After the mistake from my first cam, I tapped the gear on the cam the rest of the way, I thought, when it was still in the engine. This last cam swap is when I noticed it was still about 1/8 to 1/16 in. not all the way on. Since the new cam is in I have had no issues.
 
I tapped this one on as well...

Why does it take a year for this condition to rear its head??

I could see within a few miles, but it's a solid 30,000mi before it starts to make its noise...and only hot??
 
2007 5.9 said:
I tapped this one on as well...

Why does it take a year for this condition to rear its head??

I could see within a few miles, but it's a solid 30,000mi before it starts to make its noise...and only hot??
Click to expand...

Not sure, Mine only did it when it was hot, sometimes.... I was curious and knew I was swapping in another one, the 188/208. As soon as I got it out I went to looking and noticed my error. My old thrust washer is in my toolbox if ya want a pic. Old 178/208 is in the box going back to Zach.
 
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