NHRA Rules as they affect Diesel Street Trucks.

McRat

McRat

New member
After Greg Hogue mentioned guys were going to run NHRA points events with their diesels, and after I had been in contact with the NHRA on the subject, I decided to actually read the rulebook cover to cover.

Going from Front to Back of 2007 Rulebook:

SuperPro, Pro, Sportsman ET Handicap Summit Series - You can run Diesel Fuel, but you must remove your turbocharger. Turbocharging only permitted for Gasoline and Alcohol. If you want to run these classes, you should bring a Snowmobile, ATV, or Electric Motorcycle, which are allowed. Turbo diesels are technically not allowed to compete.

SuperStreet - This is a "delay box" 2800lb min 10.90 heads up class. You CAN run a Turbo Diesel, but no nitrous is permitted. Not sure about whether our diesel "throttles" are legal since we don't have one. Looks like you must remove your speedometer and on common rail trucks our computers are tied between our injection and speed sensor which is illegal.
I think they would let a diesel slide, but technically according to rules, many late model diesels are illegal since you have the ability to program in a speed limiter. Run at the risk of protest unless you are mechanical injection with no engine computer.

SuperGas - Same as SuperStreet but 2200lb 9.90 index. Says "cars", but nothing says you can't run a truck. Same problems as above. No Nitrous.

SuperComp - Same as SuperGas, 1350lb 8.90 index. Doesn't say trucks are allowed, but doesn't specifically ban them. No nitrous. You could run a diesel-powered rail in this class though on #2 only.

Stock Cars - Gasoline only. Vehicle must be listed to compete in the "Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide" which I don't have. This is the perfect class for the average hobbyist diesel racer.

Super Stock - Gasoline only. Same as above. They even have a GT Truck class, which is limited to 1/2 ton trucks, and full roll cage manditory regardless of ET, even though cars only need a rollbar when they cross 11.49, and a rollcage at 9.99 if the factory body is intact.

Modified Truck - Gasoline only. 1/2 ton.

Exhibition - This is the only class that specifically mentions diesel trucks are allowed. Not really a class.

The Cliff Notes Version:

Running a #2 diesel rail in the 8.90 index (Super Comp) appears to be permitted. Running a street truck (in any class) that has a speedometer appears to be illegal.

The Banks Pickup actually would not be NHRA legal in any class as far as I can tell since it will be using nitrous and has a Bosch computer which is capable of speed limiting.

You cannot even run brackets unless you pull your turbo.

If I interpreted the rulebook incorrectly, please correct me.
 
I have spoke to and talk to Eric Lowe in person of NHRA you can run nitrous in 2007 in super street with a diesel.
 
What has happen is that NHRA has released a revision to the rule book and also to the procedures manual. The rule revision along with sever others that are not diesel related and are yet to be posted on the NHRA web site.

Here is the letter from NHRA To those of you who inquired about classes permitting nitrous on diesels, the following is an outline of what has recently been discussed within NHRA and the results of this discussion. The two concerns were the use of nitrous in conjunction with a turbo on diesel vehicles and, the classes where diesels were permitted.
“Regarding turbo diesel applications with nitrous, and their acceptance into certain Sportsman classes the votes are all in, and the results are as follows.
Turbo diesel, with nitrous oxide, is permitted in ET Brackets, Super Street, Super Gas, Super Comp, Super Eliminator categories. At this time, it is prohibited in Top Dragster, Top Sportsman, Top Comp and Competition Eliminators.”

Please keep in mind that the above classes may or may not be contested at certain national and divisional events.

Also, be aware that some of the classes above where nitrous and diesel are prohibited together, do allow diesels to run without nitrous (i.e. Advance ET and Top Comp)

Should any of you have questions concerning this, please do no hesitate to email me.

Eric Lowe

NHRA - National Hot Rod Association
Technical Services Representative
626.914.4761 Main office
626.250.2209 Direct
Are you an NHRA member yet? Join today! http://www.nhra.com/join.html

Since this letter NHRA has also allowed us to run Top Sportsman, Top Dragster, and top comp.
We have always been able to run these categories, but with either a turbo , or nitrous , but not both, now we can run both.
There is also the question of electronic drive by wire, this is answered in the NHRA procedures manual, its allowed, and already being done on Gas engines
 
I read through the Jan 26 revision, and it changes nothing that affects diesels. Secret rule changes may not be enforceable at all tracks.

Here's a quote from the current (1/26/07) rules pg19, Summit ET Series:

Supercharger, Turbocharger
Permitted on gasoline, racing-gasoline, and alcohol burning cars.

Period.

It's not so much the throttle, as the engine control. All these classes are essentially bracket classes, and with advanced computers, you can program in what ET the car will run. They check RPM/MPH and time, and can pull power to achieve the target ET.

The rules are written to stop racers from doing this, but the problem is all late model engine computers are in conflict with these rules. And for good reason. A clever individual could do this with a modern diesel using the OEM engine computer.

Guess we will just see how it goes. For the most part, it will be up to the Tech and other racers to make the decision at the track, and normal they are accomodating. Well, except when money purses are involved.
 
The new revisions were approved after publishing of the 2007 books, the new rule revisions should appear in the 2008 rule book.

Myself and the PDRA members, and several other names- recieved the revisions via e-mail from Mr.Lowe directly from NHRA headquarters......
 
So Greg, I hope Banks didn't build that truck just to run brackets.

Brackets are fun, but not a good place to display new technology. And unless the fellow racers are accomodating, you can't even run that with a Bosch or Delphi computer on board the way the rules are.
 
RacinDuallie said:
The new revisions were approved after publishing of the 2007 books, the new rule revisions should appear in the 2008 rule book.

Myself and the PDRA members, and several other names- recieved the revisions via e-mail from Mr.Lowe directly from NHRA headquarters......
Click to expand...

They do mid-year corrections, just like all organizations do:

http://www.nhra.com/content/general.asp?articleid=17519

This is 3 weeks old. Do you see anything that changes anything?

Eric Lowe owns (owned?) an LB7 Duramax and I believe raced it at least once, and was at the 2006 Fontana Diesel Charity Event in the TTS pits.
He appears to be intelligent and knows what's in a modern diesel, and what they are capable of.
 
We are going to run Top Sportsman; Eric Lowe has been by the shop on numerous occasions. The computer issue is not a problem, as many of the newest 565CID SC engines are going to the aftermarket engine management computers. This has been addressed with NHRA and the drive by wire has been addresses. I do not have a rule book at the fire station now, but Diesel Fuel has long been allowed in the super series as well as brackets, along with Turbochargers. I have run in NHRA’s sportsman categories with a diesel powered vehicles. The rules say that diesel fuel is allowed. The new rules allow Diesels to also run Nitrous. The problem in Top Sportsman was diesel has long been allowed, but with a turbo, or nitrous, but not both. That rule has been amended to allow nitrous with turbo chargers if diesel is the fuel.

I believe from talking to fellow competitor in those categories , that we will be welcome with open arms, sever reasons. First these are great people that want everyone to get a chance to race. Second they have a misconception that we might be a easy opponent, and third, the publicity of a diesel will filter down on them every time we are beside them in pictures.

The Super Stock modified, and Competition Eliminator classes, will be the future, and the neat place to race for the innovator. Charlie and I have been asked many times to write a set of fair rules proposals for these two classes, but until there is more data, this is still a little ways off. The key word is fair to everyone, and reliable, and inclusive. This is something that will be hashed out in some ones trailer some day with everyone interested, along with a few of us that have run these eliminators advising
 
Which class is "Top Sportsman"? I don't have a listing for that. Only the classes I listed above allow diesel for a fuel.

I'm not sure you're understanding the computer problem. Many of the gasoline cars in these classes can run below their index at any track in the country. So they want to set up a computerized ET planner. They dial in the ET the car needs to run, and the computer makes the car match the number. It needs to monitor MPH, RPM, time, and control the engine accordingly. This is illegal in the classes that currently allow diesel fuel.

Our engine computers have the ability to do this, so according to the rulebook are illegal. Putting in an even more advance computer is still going to be illegal.

Or am I understanding the "no computer" rule incorrectly?
 
BTW - There appears to be zero changes from 2006 to 2007 as it pertains to diesels.

Did any diesels run 2006 NHRA points events? They would be the guys who would have the best "intel" on what is up.
 
The Super Series classes , Super Comp , 8.90 Super Gas 9.90 and Super Street 10.90 are the classes where you can run , these classes are a heads up break out class, you run as close to the number as possible with out going under . You still have to cross the strip (finish line) first, but with out breaking out. All of these classes have allowed Turbocharged diesels for a good number of years, thanks to a guy named Doug Dorring about 10 years ago. In these classes you run a sophisticated pneumatic multistage computer controlled throttle stop. I will assure you that these controllers in the hands of a top super racer will dial in package tighter then .005 of a second example 8.905 and that is mediocre at best. The other component of what Super Racers call a package is reaction time; this is usually in the range of .010 or better

The engine management system you speak of are not as capable as you might think and are not Proactive, that is the ability measuring G force, or actual track position in relation to ET and making adjustments on the fly.

The advantage in the Turbo diesel engine combination is its ability to perform consistently, regardless of changes in Density Altitude. This change in DA is the reason most of the latest Super Racer have very sophisticated weather stations at the track with wireless update to the drivers hand up in till the time of staging . Im counting on people like you to go out and win, with a diesel, not long after that you will see a lot of non diesel people turning to diesels .
 
McRat said:
BTW - There appears to be zero changes from 2006 to 2007 as it pertains to diesels.

Did any diesels run 2006 NHRA points events? They would be the guys who would have the best "intel" on what is up.
Click to expand...

I ran in super gas in 05 and super street in 04 and 03 . I was compeating in Dallas when I set the 8,72 record on a sunday exibition pass after going out first round
 
It's not that important anyhow, since there are now specific diesel racing organizations, I was just curious if we could attend an NHRA event, and from the looks of it, it would be pointless, both literally and figuratively. If anyone thinks they can run their street pickup with the gas index cars in a fair fight, they are kidding themselves. They got WAY more "ET Control" tricks than we can muster.

I think our best bet is the DHRA, but I guess time will tell.
 
McRat said:
Did any diesels run 2006 NHRA points events? They would be the guys who would have the best "intel" on what is up.
Click to expand...

Not sure which NHRA points events you are referring to, but I ran both division 7, and division 6 points last year. I won the division 6 bracket finals in the Sportsman class. I competed in NHRA points events at 8 different tracks last year.

Paul
 
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