Other intake manifolds besides ZZ?

So would funneling the air into the cylinder make it more dense or larger volume or both? Just seems it would make it more dense as it would sorta compress?
Brandon
 
COMP461 said:
All of Greg at ZZ manifolds, are now Steel, or Stainless. The primary reason for a manifold is to give the ability to port the head, the manifold also aids in better distribution. The manifold in the earlier post is the funniest thing I have ever seen, and I’m sorry, worthless, and defiantly a hindrance. An individual runner manifold is a crucial part of resonance tuning of intake track air. The way resonance tuning works is that the manifold is designed to allow the inertia of the air column aids in packing more air in the cylinder..


but the bottom line is that manifold pictures is 10 times to long, and has no taper , meaning the opening at the beginning needs to be bigger, and if anything just a gimmick ,if it was meant to be a individual runner , it failed big time , the 24 valve head runners that are close together are from two different cylinders . Sorry, but it’s true.


here is some of the type manifold that Greg is helping me on for my new Duramax the runners will be trimed to about half the lenght now

dragsternx165.jpg
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Do like helping the competition constantly?
 
joefarmer said:
Sweet! How does that comparatively change over the range of valve lift? Is it 45% everywhere?
Click to expand...

Here are the flow numbers:

Stock w/stock plenum:
lift/cfm: 0.100/73 .150/99 .200/122 .250/135 .300/140 .350/142 .400/143 .450/144 .500/143 .550/144 .600/144

Fully ported, aftermarket (banks) manifold
lift/cfm: .100/81 .150/108 .200/138 .250/161 .300/160 .350/195 .400/206.4 .450/215 .500/221 .550/227 .600/232
 
Jim Fulmer said:
You should hit a wall at .500 lift, this is because the head is designed to cool not flow air...12V. I went down this road several years ago and the same guy has another head for the 01' 12V.

Jim
Click to expand...

On a stock head your exactly right. The flow basicly falls flat at .500. A fully ported head will continue to flow much better at higher lift numbers (see above) providing your manifold can keep up. This makes more radical cams and bigger (or compound) turbos much more affective.
 
jbarker@banks said:
Here are the flow numbers:

Stock w/stock plenum:
lift/cfm: 0.100/73 .150/99 .200/122 .250/135 .300/140 .350/142 .400/143 .450/144 .500/143 .550/144 .600/144

Fully ported, aftermarket (banks) manifold
lift/cfm: .100/81 .150/108 .200/138 .250/161 .300/160 .350/195 .400/206.4 .450/215 .500/221 .550/227 .600/232
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting those... is each flowed at 25" of water?
 
COMP461 said:
The way resonance tuning works is that the manifold is designed to allow the inertia of the air column aids in packing more air in the cylinder..

QUOTE]
What you are referring to is inertia as in a N/A application, where the mass of air increases in velocity as it converges upon its self. As with the tapered runner venturi effect. When you are dealing with forced induction that does not apply. Top Fuel would have their superchargers sitting on top of tunnel rams, if that were the case. The positive pressure generated by forced induction, greatly overcomes natural atmospheric conditions. The air is already backed up behind the valve, waiting for a way into the engine. It doesn't need to be coaxed into the port. Another IR anomoly is the shockwave transmitted through the airstream as the intake valve slams shut, was learned in the Pro Stock classes, with tunnel rams and quick acting roller cams. This also will not apply to our lower RPM, boosted diesel engines. All the removal of the plenum does is allow access to the ports. Can flow and power be increased with new designs, absolutely. Do we need individual long length tapered runners, I don't think so.
Click to expand...
 
here are some of the pics of the side air intake for a cr head that i was talking about in earlier posts im wokring on trying to get mike to make them fit on a 24v vp head too

bonesmx2000
 
Looks good Jeremy! It looks like it was meant to flow rather than just duplicate the stock piece.
 
haha lmao yeah i havent been able to get my hands on one for testing yet to see if it aids in helping any flow characteristics (sp) but did you get those piston pics i sent you brandon??
 
there is an entire science to intake and exhaust manifold design, and it isnt anywhere near as simple as havin a "funnel" shape to the runners for the intake.

Actual port length from the valve face to the port exit, the port shape, the angle of the port floor if any, volume of the intake plenum, valve diameter, bowl shape, short side radius cam parametres ie overlap and centerline, area under the curve, etc etc etc and once you have all that data you can mathematically figure the approximate length and shape of the intake runners - maybe

why maybe? -

all of those calculations changes at different rpms, so the design for 5000 rpm is way different than for 9000 rpm, and again for 3500 rpm.

Then throw boost into the picture and it is agian different

Unless you have access to an engine dyno, a really good flow bench, and a lot of money for r&d - by guess an by golley works just as well for intake or ehaust design.

ZZ 's intake is just a repop of the factory intake and not worth a third of the askin price in my experience unless you count bling or lookit me what i got.

Then exhaust manifolds/headers present an entire different picture but again mostly for all of the aforementioned reasons.

It would take five books and a years time to begin to understand most of the known complexities of modern intake, head and exhaust design, and still we wouldnt know a half of it because we have no way to simulate combustion on the bench

just my .03
 
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seeker1056 said:
there is an entire science to intake and exhaust manifold design, and it isnt anywhere near as simple as havin a "funnel" shape to the runners for the intake.

It would take five books and a years time to begin to understand most of the known complexities of modern intake, head and exhaust design, and still we wouldnt know a half of it because we have no way to simulate combustion on the bench

just my .03
Click to expand...


So for the people and their 58 posts in here and the 1780 people who viewed it......this guy thinks ya'll are dumb.

:bang
 
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