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TheNatural31

TheNatural31

Missing pieces.....
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
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The goal of this thread is to inform the general consumer of a possible issue with a particular valve spring setup that has been sold as an aftermarket upgrade. The point is not to "sling mud", but rather give the information to allow the customer to decide if they need to be concerned or not.

The following picture is comparing a negative 0.100" lock - standard radius bead lock - stock valve lock.
Locks.jpg


You can see the location of the bead on the two valve locks on left determines the installed height in correlation to the valve stem.

This should easily show the area of concern.
Springs.jpg


What you see being compared here is the stock lock/retainer setup vs the negative lock/retainer setup for the left two valves. On the right two valves you will see the standard lock/retainer setup vs the negative lock/retainer setup. It easy to notice the difference in installed height by comparing the retainer's location compared to the top of the valve. If your spring setup is similar to the negative lock/retainer setup pictured, it is highly recommended you look into the installed height of your valve springs.

On the cylinder head pictured the following results were noted:

Negative lock/retainer setup was 205lb @ seat installed @ 1.841"
Standard lock/retainer setup was 160lb @ seat installed @ 1.977"

Installed heights as low as 1.780" have been noted putting the seat pressure above 220lbs. If you are concerned you may have an issue you should contact the person/company which the springs were purchased from. Or, you can purchase Comp Cams locks # 632-12 which will resolve the height problem in most cases.
 
I'm sorry but I dont understand.

factory installed steam heights are as followed

intake 2.110-2.130 (53.594-54.102mm)
exhaust is the same
you are saying your installed steam height is 1.97

even by your picture, the only thing that is differnt on height is the spring, there is no set standard for this, the spring does not have any relationship to the valve train, its job is to close the valve.

you can not use the (as you called it )negative lock on a regular cap, they are designed for the cap that you have all the way to the left, they were designed for industrial application, not dodge.
 
Last edited:
Tragic said:
I'm sorry but I dont understand.

factory installed steam heights are as followed

intake 2.110-2.130 (53.594-54.102mm)
exhaust is the same
you are saying your installed steam height is 1.97

even by your picture, the only thing that is differnt on height is the spring, there is no set standard for this, the spring does not have any relationship to the valve train, its job is to close the valve.

you can not use the (as you called it )negative lock on a regular cap, they are designed for the cap that you have all the way to the left, they were designed for industrial application, not dodge.
Click to expand...

Installed SPRING height was being measured. The valve is not being measured, as that is not the issue at hand. The spring holds the valve shut with a certain amount of pressure, which installed SPRING height has a direct correlation to and can be manipulated with varying locks, springs, shims, and retainers.

The spring, locks and retainer on the far left are OEM Cummins DODGE application, 1996 6BT to be exact. The other three are the same spring and retainer, the second from left and the far right are the negative 0.100" locks and the second from right are the Comp Cams 632-12 standard radius beadlock locks.

1.977", is the valve spring installed height with the aftermarket spring, retainer and the Comp Cams lock. Which yielded the 160lb seat pressure.
 
Last edited:
Tragic said:
I'm sorry but I dont understand.

factory installed steam heights are as followed

intake 2.110-2.130 (53.594-54.102mm)
exhaust is the same
you are saying your installed steam height is 1.97

even by your picture, the only thing that is differnt on height is the spring, there is no set standard for this, the spring does not have any relationship to the valve train, its job is to close the valve.

you can not use the (as you called it )negative lock on a regular cap, they are designed for the cap that you have all the way to the left, they were designed for industrial application, not dodge.
Click to expand...

Interesting... So the valve spring is no relation to the valve train but it closes the valves? So do you really need springs?
 
The lower install height is the higher your seat pressure will be. Also it will increase spring pressure at max valve lift.
Plus if install height is not correct you may have coil bind.
 
BowtiedCTD said:
Installed SPRING height was being measured. The valve is not being measured, as that is not the issue at hand. The spring holds the valve shut with a certain amount of pressure, which installed SPRING height has a direct correlation to and can be manipulated with varying locks, springs, shims, and retainers.
Click to expand...

Why couldn't you just use your piston to close your valves???:poke:
 
very funny. what I mean is the realtionship with the camshaft. (the springs does not have anything to with installed steam height



what I'm asking (as a machinest) where is the problem?

you are using two types of caps, both are factory caps, one is for LTL aplication, the other is for industrial.

he is also using bee hive springs, not OEM SPRINGS for Dodge application.

my question still stands, where is the problem.
 
Tragic said:
very funny. what I mean is the realtionship with the camshaft. (the springs does not have anything to with installed steam height



what I'm asking (as a machinest) where is the problem?

you are using two types of caps, both are factory caps, one is for LTL aplication, the other is for industrial.

he is also using bee hive springs, not OEM SPRINGS for Dodge application.

my question still stands, where is the problem.
Click to expand...

The VALVES were not measured, as they are not the part in question, the VALVE SPRING installed height was measured. The valve has no correlation to the seat pressure applied by the spring. The retainer on the right three are NOT OEM, they are aftermarket.
 
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ok, let me try another way

did you measure the valve opening when the camshaft pushes the valve down.

is there a differnce in the measurement.
the reasoning behind my question, is for a project of mine.

oh, you can also buy both caps from cummins.

not trying to hurt anyones feelings, thought that since this persone made a claim that there could be problems with the spring height, they would take the time to investigate, if not then I will have to do it myself.
 
Last edited:
Tragic said:
ok, let me try another way

did you measure the valve opening when the camshaft pushes the valve down.

is there a differnce in the measurement.
the reasoning behind my question, is for a project of mine.

oh, you can also buy both caps from cummins.
Click to expand...

The valve opening was not measured. Head is not currently on the engine.
 
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