Turbo rule, what you thought it was?

I have the parts laying at the shop and could easily be top ten. It's not all about me. We can debate this on here forever. Your not getting input from the other 75% of the pullers that are put into the class because of rules. Maybe the rules are fine. Maybe there is a way to handicap so the true street driven hot trucks can be somewhat close.
 
Everyone wants a unified set of rules, thats a given. When the local promoters adopt those rules it puts a lot of pullers at a big disadvantage and you start to lose them.
 
great discussion here. for the record FPP is very much in favor of unified rules for the 2.6 class. we have many pulls in Ohio and we plan to add more in the future. ultimately it is up to the current members to decide on the rules for 2011. we want a class this will permit the local guys to enter and participate regularly along side the USA-EAST regulars.

however we have seen it in the past. as the class gets more advanced the number of 'locals' start to bail out. now the Fair says - 'Why no local trucks??" and we start over again from the bottom.

we now have three Diesel Truck classes for points with USA-EAST. our pulls are seldom 'trucks only' due to the fact that Fairs want variety. If we have to add another entry level class to the mix the number of hooks for the existing three diesel truck classes will suffer in the long run. and i might add the quality of the show will suffer as well.
 
A couple weeks ago at the Jefferson Township Fair, Northwest ran a "Pure Street Class", there were only 4 trucks in the class. Last year at Jamestown, they ran a similar class and only 5 trucks showed up. One of the biggest problems with these types of classes is the rules. There aren't any! They try stuff like 2 or 3 mods and that's it. Nothing in writing, so guys don't show up because, they don't know if they'll be able to pull or not. The other problem is how do you tech for injectors or a modded pump?

Last year at the Butler Farm show in the "Street Class" I finished second to a guy that 2 weeks later finished 2nd to Dale Bennett a Big Knob. He had it all turbo, modded CP3, injectors, etc, but he drove it in, and there 30 trucks and 1 tech guy. He missed it. I didn't protest it, or complain about it, what was I out $20 of purse money? I had fun, and my truck ran well, I was happy.
Who is really complaining? Is there a shortage of local trucks at pulls?

As soon as you add a turbo you are out of most "street classes" around here, so you have to run 2.6. I know a few guys with "hot" street trucks, and none of them are complaining about getting beat.

A couple weeks ago at the Clarion Co Fair (FYI 30 trucks registered to pull), Black Betty Finished 6th, and he won the GTO series with FPP. I talked to him, and he drives the truck everyday, that's not a bad finish for a hot street truck.

In this area if you want to pull its 2.6, or you pull the "pure" classes a couple times. Most of us pull for fun. Since I did some work to my truck, its nice to be able to place in the money, but I still drive my truck in and out of pulls.

Rick, are you seeing a drop in entries for the 2.6 class? Does a local really expect to be able to beat a truck running for points? Like I said local class with in the 2.6 class. Exclude points runners regardless of address.

I don't know what the answer is, but there is a HUGE difference between a stock truck and 2.6 truck, but a "Hot" truck can do OK running 2.6 IMHO.
 
rickFPP said:
great discussion here. for the record FPP is very much in favor of unified rules for the 2.6 class. we have many pulls in Ohio and we plan to add more in the future. ultimately it is up to the current members to decide on the rules for 2011. we want a class this will permit the local guys to enter and participate regularly along side the USA-EAST regulars.

however we have seen it in the past. as the class gets more advanced the number of 'locals' start to bail out. now the Fair says - 'Why no local trucks??" and we start over again from the bottom.

we now have three Diesel Truck classes for points with USA-EAST. our pulls are seldom 'trucks only' due to the fact that Fairs want variety. If we have to add another entry level class to the mix the number of hooks for the existing three diesel truck classes will suffer in the long run. and i might add the quality of the show will suffer as well.
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OK, Rick, I hear you.

How about this, how about we start heavily promoting the "local only" (2.6 NoFHW) and "county only" classes that you're already putting on, maybe toss in some incentives, and grow it.

I know you don't want two classes and I get that. But with the local only, I think you effectively already have a second class. So let's make the most out of it.

And with these classes, if I were King for a day, I would let it be known far and wide that "ringers" from the big-boy class are not welcome in local-only....maybe tell USA-East regulars from NADM 2.6 that they need your permission to participate BEFORE the pull even starts. Like anyone inside the top 8 in points in the big class, sorry, come and spectate.

The other thing you could do for the locals, open it up to that county, AND adjoining counties.

You are never going to balance a "pro" class with daily drivers. Blending is impossible...far too many have tried and ended up with both groups pissed off. So working with what you already have, could be successful, I think.

About the only thing I can think of to have daily drivers run alongside the big trucks, is to give them a 50' handicap. Kinda like bracket drag racing.

Otherwise you will junk up the 2.6 class so bad that your top runners, the ones who come every week, will likely go elsewhere.
 
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nwpadmax said:
OK, Rick, I hear you.

The other thing you could do for the locals, open it up to that county, AND adjoining counties.

You are never going to balance a "pro" class with daily drivers. Blending is impossible...far too many have tried and ended up with both groups pissed off. So working with what you already have, could be successful, I think.
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Agreed: Adjoining counties is a good idea!
 
mech2161 said:
Everyone wants a unified set of rules, thats a given. When the local promoters adopt those rules it puts a lot of pullers at a big disadvantage and you start to lose them.
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As two posts above indicate, the local numbers are so low compared to serious points runners, we have to wonder what you are talking about?

It sounds like the best thing to do at county fairs would be a run for fun hook until you break. $10 a hook for local guys with bone stock turbos.
 
As two posts above indicate, the local numbers are so low compared to serious points runners, we have to wonder what you are talking about?
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Wonder why locals don't want to pull. Hmmm.... the answer maybe isn't too hard to find.
 
I dont believe it Kevin, I bet those local numbers were the same last year. The economy if anything has cut down on pullers.

Look at Urbana Ohio. 111 hooks.. you telling me the majority of those are not local?

The fairs deal with about 3 guys every class that want to win in front of their buddies, and get mad when when they get waxed. Then they should petition the fair board to sponsor a local only class with local rules that lock everyone else out. Old school mentality, lock out the competition, but I dont think we should change national rules to help out a few underachievers.

One last time, you never, EVER, no matter what restrictions you put on the horsepower, will stop serious pullers from waxing once a year hookers.

Any of you PA guys know Jim Tudor or Mark Petros? Gasser guys, their trucks have pulled in a dozen if not more different classes over the years, with a lot of rules directed at banning their trucks, and no local "stock" truck was ever close.
 
I think I've said this before and maybe others have,

You can run 2 levels of truck intermingled. Just have 2 leader cones, and the local guys get a bright orange "L" on the windshield to let everyone know who is who.

And if a local truck gets out there near the big boys, the crowd will love it. That guy probably gets more local press than the big truck who wins.

Invite the local winner up to the announcers stand and let the guy get a standing ovation. I guarantee you that recognition is worth FAR more than any trophy or check.
 
Myself personaly i dont see a problem with the current NADM/FPP 2.6 rules. WE have been "competive" pulling at 2 FPP events and numedia, with a true street driven truck wiht a go to hell silver bullet, hell the truck hauled another truck to numedia and placed 9th then hauled another truck home again, and the damn thing only had 1 stock cp3 at the time? Stack that with a 3rd and 5th at 2 FPP events and im more than pleased with the way a street truck performs aginst the big trucks, maybe we aint gonna win or dominate, but top 5 or even top 10 with these truck is dang good company to be in with a street truck.$.02
 
When I started pulling there were no trucks in the parking lot. They all wanted to pull. You go to these events and their all in the parking lot. Yes the economy has something to do with it. Not as much as not wanting to hook against purpose built pro pulling trucks. I have stated my concerns and over the years it pretty much been the same. Your pushing out pullers that are willing to be involved. Unified rules may be the down fall of the sport.
 
Sledpuller said:
I dont believe it Kevin, I bet those local numbers were the same last year. The economy if anything has cut down on pullers.

LOL They can't afford to compete against the rules you have.

Look at Urbana Ohio. 111 hooks.. you telling me the majority of those are not local?

Probably

The fairs deal with about 3 guys every class that want to win in front of their buddies, and get mad when when they get waxed. Then they should petition the fair board to sponsor a local only class with local rules that lock everyone else out. Old school mentality, lock out the competition, but I dont think we should change national rules to help out a few underachievers.

Fairs don't want all the different classes.

One last time, you never, EVER, no matter what restrictions you put on the horsepower, will stop serious pullers from waxing once a year hookers.

This is true. Do you think the top two 2.6 trucks would be a top ten or better in a 3.0 class.

Any of you PA guys know Jim Tudor or Mark Petros? Gasser guys, their trucks have pulled in a dozen if not more different classes over the years, with a lot of rules directed at banning their trucks, and no local "stock" truck was ever close.
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I hear what your saying, I know them.
 
mech2161 said:
When I started pulling there were no trucks in the parking lot. They all wanted to pull. You go to these events and their all in the parking lot. Yes the economy has something to do with it. Not as much as not wanting to hook against purpose built pro pulling trucks. I have stated my concerns and over the years it pretty much been the same. Your pushing out pullers that are willing to be involved. Unified rules may be the down fall of the sport.
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An entry level class will always be infiltrated by the experienced.
Call it- show room stock.
Call it- pure stock
Call it- work stock
call it- Stacks and Smarty only.
It doesn't matter Kevin. It will still be the pond with the most ducks.
The 2.6 class seems to be the ripest pond at this juncture. I do like to see the true 2.6 turbo trucks hanging in though. At least the ducks are shooting back :)
At our Local fair we just said the hell with it, there is no such thing as a stock truck. Just bring it. See how you do against the Duck Hunters. Or, bring all your Buddy's and see how you do against each other. You can probably make more money on side bets than you can by actually winning a sled pull at the fair anyway.
I agree that it as become very difficult for the person unwillingly sitting in the stands to compete.
It's funny, 10 years ago a center-force clutch would hold up pretty good in a winning street Diesel. Of course, 10 years ago every other 19-30 year old didn't own a Diesel, and it wasn't near as easy to make 500 hp.
You actually need tools and stuff :(

Sorry I had way to much time to type, it's way to fukking hot outside.:hehe:

You guys can carry on with your entertaining 2.6 debate.
 
Jeff I don't disagree. How do we get the wanna bes' to come back?
 
mech2161 said:
When I started pulling there were no trucks in the parking lot. They all wanted to pull. You go to these events and their all in the parking lot. Yes the economy has something to do with it. Not as much as not wanting to hook against purpose built pro pulling trucks. I have stated my concerns and over the years it pretty much been the same. Your pushing out pullers that are willing to be involved. Unified rules may be the down fall of the sport.
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So are you really saying that if a pull was put on with NADM Work Stock rules, all these guys would jump in? Or would they be skeered of the big bad national rules?

Define what would get them out of the parking lot.

If it were a 2.5" class would they hook?
If it were a 2.4" class would they hook?
If it were a 2.0" class would they hook?

I'll toss this out too:

I think some guys won't hook because they are embarrassed to go 220'.

Why? Did not everyone start somewhere? All of us have finished 10th or worse at some point? Did we quit? Maybe we felt like it but we didn't.

Back in the day, anyone with a 90hp box could go an maybe win.

The past is the past. Those days are over. Period. It will never be that way again. Ever! We cannot turn back time!

Maybe pro pullers need to reach out more and invite people to hook, and help out, and encourage people that way. Or invite those guys to the pits or to help out or whatever to get them involved. If we all look like a bunch of pro snobs, maybe we should be carrying ourselves differently. Like not laughing when a newb shows up and goes 220'. Be encouraging and befriend those guys. Maybe point them to a street stock class at some small pull and go with them to give them some pointers. But DO NOT dumb down a good class in order to satisfy some cinderella dream of "I beat 'em all with my '94 stroke."

If potential pullers are looking for a class they can dominate, it's no ones' problem but their own. Beacuse it won't ever happen. It's the wrong attitude.
 
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mech2161 said:
Jeff I don't disagree. How do we get the wanna bes' to come back?
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I don't know, I think they are scared.
We get a pretty fair share at Indiana but we call it Hot street and usually get about 20 in that class, but honestly the ones that show up just to wish and watch create more revenue for the grounds so......

nwpadmax said:
So are you really saying that if a pull was put on with NADM Work Stock rules, all these guys would jump in? Or would they be skeered of the big bad national rules?
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Very skeered. Or scared, as we like to say when we are learned. LOL A guy in work stock running points might just beat them, and then all that bud light bull**** they spew would be meaningless.

Good stuff:
Maybe pro pullers need to reach out more and invite people to hook, and help out, and encourage people that way. Or invite those guys to the pits or to help out or whatever to get them involved. If we all look like a bunch of pro snobs, maybe we should be carrying ourselves differently. Like not laughing when a newb shows up and goes 220'. Be encouraging and befriend those guys. Maybe point them to a street stock class at some small pull and go with them to give them some pointers. But DO NOT dumb down a good class in order to satisfy some cinderella dream of "I beat 'em all with my '94 stroke."
 
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