Whats required to push 5000 rpms in a 5.9L?

Mike Holmen

the Diesel dude
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
376
Besides the valve springs and putting on a P pump. Would you use a main gridle plate with ARP studs in the mains? ARP for the rod bolts. A camshaft with a retainer bolt, the motor should rev to 5000 rpm's? Is lighter racing pistons required? Thanks guys, just trying to figure out whats required to build a killer bracket motor for my truck.
 
im turning 5k in my p-pumped 24v puller, stock bottom end never touched

cam with bolt on gear
valve springs
pushrods
fluidamper
coolant bypass and clipped waterpump
 
im turning 5k in my p-pumped 24v puller, stock bottom end never touched

cam with bolt on gear
valve springs
pushrods
fluidamper
coolant bypass and clipped waterpump
and a mouth full of marshmallows

sorry, couldn't resist
 
Whats involved in the coolant bypass mod? What is it? Done any mods to the cylinder head?

I'm thinking that the reason why the engine horsepower/torque curve is so flat after 4000 rpm's, you can't get the air flow into the engine.

How often do you take the engine to 5000rpms?
 
Whats involved in the coolant bypass mod? What is it? Done any mods to the cylinder head?

I'm thinking that the reason why the engine horsepower/torque curve is so flat after 4000 rpm's, you can't get the air flow into the engine.

How often do you take the engine to 5000rpms?

What Gsk kit do you have in the P pump? this maybe why. or you may not have enough fuel/ supporting mods.
 
I'm getting a custom pump built with a 5 gsk installed. Its gonna be set-up to be able to rev to 5000 rpm's and still have fuel.

Most dyno curves seem to show above 4000 rpms that they flatten out and their isn't alot of gains to be made in horsepower. Is this from the fact of the injection pump or from the lack of the ablity to get more air into the cylinders.
 
lack of air...big lift cams with fly cut pistons, and a good port/polish job will help make power up there.

I take mine to 5k every time i come off the line hooked to a sled. i used to turn about 3600-4000 down the track, but went to a different charger and new sticks and gained some power and can now turn 4k+ under load. at 5k tho I am not under load, its free revving and as I let the clutch out it pulls me down to about 4k.
 
Thanks guys, I just don't want to spend money on stuff on unnecessary stuff. What done with the coolant bypass and trimming the coolant pump? Does the factory coolant pump cavitate at the higher speeds? I saw that there is an electric coolant pumps out now, are they worth the $$$

I was kinda hoping on not having to cut the pistons, but if you have to....

Any thoughts to putting in 12v marine pistons in a 24v engine with a 24V head? I haven't done any measuring to see if the injector nozzle will work with the 12v piston.

Thanks again guys, I'm hoping on building a decent bracket engine for drag racing and dyno events.
 
Thanks guys, I just don't want to spend money on stuff on unnecessary stuff. What done with the coolant bypass and trimming the coolant pump? Does the factory coolant pump cavitate at the higher speeds? I saw that there is an electric coolant pumps out now, are they worth the $$$

I was kinda hoping on not having to cut the pistons, but if you have to....

Any thoughts to putting in 12v marine pistons in a 24v engine with a 24V head? I haven't done any measuring to see if the injector nozzle will work with the 12v piston.
Thanks again guys, I'm hoping on building a decent bracket engine for drag racing and dyno events.

12v pistons do not work with 24v heads and injectors. The spray angle is way different.
 
I guess should have know that. Any other suggestion on improving the pocket on the top of piston for improving the combustion with the bigger sticks? I haven't phoned around yet to see what is done differently to the racing pistons vs. stock.
 
Thanks guys, I just don't want to spend money on stuff on unnecessary stuff. What done with the coolant bypass and trimming the coolant pump? Does the factory coolant pump cavitate at the higher speeds? I saw that there is an electric coolant pumps out now, are they worth the $$$

Spinning at high rpm will cause the cooling system to build excessive pressure which usually leads to blowing out freeze plugs. The bypass basically reroutes coolant from back near #6 up to the radiator to prevent the excessive pressure buildup. Do a search for coolant bypass. There are a number of threads on it.
 
Would you guys drop the compression ratio or leave that at a stock? I was told today that the cummins piston is an hypereutectic/cast piston not a forged piece. I thought, that the cummins piston was a forged piece. I was thinking about running around 15 to 1 compression, but use methanol/water mixture.
 
First to turn 5000 plus RPM’s , and make power there , and yes there is power there, I will lay out the my list of parts I think absolutely necessary



This combination of parts will make peak power at or above 5000 rpm’s and turn to 6000+


A maximum effort thoughfully Ported head with a good intake manifold to distribute the intake air evenly .


Second a good cam program , with a good valve spring that matches the cam profiles

A properly clearance engine , that is easily said, but few people know what that intales ..

First you have to line hone the main bores to make sure they are straight, and of the right bearing crush clearance .

Deck the block, to be parallel with the mains , you would be shocked if you knew how far these things are all over the map.

Bore the block with a torque plate , and hone the proper piston to bore clearance

The Cumming block is actually lighter then a big block Chevy Dart block, and very flimsily, the bores are susceptible to moving all over the place with the head bolted on, and now with you big studs , and killer pistons , along with o rinds or fire rings that hold everything together tight, the rings are still round , but the bores are not .


Ring package , this is one of the secrets that cost very little , but make a huge difference in rpm potential. As much as 75 hp is locked up in a ring package that was designed to run half a million miles

Now , the secret to all of this is............

besides the head, the rest is fairly inexpensive , and part of any good rebuild.
The higher you rev a 5.9 Cummins the less cylinder pressure and subsequently torque needed to make big hp , and the less you will spit head gaskets out .



One other factor is that with higher flowing heads , better cam profiles , and higher rpm’s the fuel requirements will actually be some what less , in that the engine will become more efficient in regards to BSFC



The turbo will need to be a lot bigger , and designed in my opinion with a lower pressure ratio, meaning less boost , more air

Been on the dyno with a Cummins like this and peak power was around 5000



Also the RPM’s of the water pump , has zero to do with all the freeze plugs blowing out , its called micro steam pockets at the top of the cylinder bores , they form when the water is forced away from the hot spots by steam bubbles , when the water rushes back to meat the then hotter bores the rapid expansion of the steam explosion is the cause of this problem.
 
comp461, did you build a windage tray for the 5000 rpm motor? Crank scraper to get the film of oil off the crank. I'm kinda curious on where all the engine oil is gonna be at the end of the track. The 5.9L, doesn't drain oil that well and kinda pools on top the head.
 
comp461 i agree i am an industrial boiler tech. and i have watch out for the rapid exspansion of steam all the time cuz on like a cummins if i have this problem alot more is going to blow than some freeze plugs. i would call haisley and order some of there billet freeze plugs. or if you have connections to a machine shop you can make your own i made my own. but this is the only way that i no of to keep from blowing the freeze plugs and someone correct me if they had any bad experiences but i dont no anyone that has had a prob after doing this
 
Also the RPM’s of the water pump , has zero to do with all the freeze plugs blowing out , its called micro steam pockets at the top of the cylinder bores , they form when the water is forced away from the hot spots by steam bubbles , when the water rushes back to meat the then hotter bores the rapid expansion of the steam explosion is the cause of this problem.

If that is the case, then why do guys who run just an electric water pump not have freeze plug issues? Or why does the one who just uses the cummins bypass kit that bypass water from the back of the block, take care of the blown freeze plugs?
 
If that is the case, then why do guys who run just an electric water pump not have freeze plug issues? Or why does the one who just uses the cummins bypass kit that bypass water from the back of the block, take care of the blown freeze plugs?

X2 :what:
 
Whats the cummins part number for the bypass kit? I wrote it down somewhere, but...
 
If that is the case, then why do guys who run just an electric water pump not have freeze plug issues? Or why does the one who just uses the cummins bypass kit that bypass water from the back of the block, take care of the blown freeze plugs?

I've seen it with an electric pump, if you will look at at basic hydraulics , you would understand that the stock Cummins water pump can not under any circumstances createt enough water pressure to blow out a freeze plug, That is a given fact . If this pump could do do this feat , then it’s a a super pump ,on the lines of no other in existence. Greg at ZZ and RayMac racing engines both tap and plum the plugs in under the valve cover , on race heads .
If this problem was real , why do the freeze plugs blow out when you free reve the engine , I have data logged engine block pressure , and the pump, builds less pressure , and the cheap pump starts to Cavite.
Hence the need for a electric pump any way.
 
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