Borg Warner test the BATMOWHEEL

rollincoalCTD said:
I like that idea too...

But please, without bias answer this question and I am not asking to stir but pot, or anything of that nature:

If a truck comes in with with a billet s466 on it, and a tune that puts the truck at 1700 degrees at the top of the dyno pull, and making 65lbs of boost.

Then, you bolt the batmowheel s466 with the same turbine size and exhaust housing etc. and throw it back on the dyno and EGT peaks at 1500 degrees and boost is 50lbs. and drive pressure is lower (assuming you have the instrumentation to see this)

So...that being said, the owner of the truck says sure there is room for hotter tuning because he is ok with the 1700 degrees, and ok with pushing the turbo to 65lbs like he was with the turbo he came in with.

They adjust the tuning, and you are at the same EGT and boost with the batmo as you where with the other charger, but making more power now. (just assuming it makes more power just for the question)

Would that not show that the batmowheel is in fact making a difference in over all performance?
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That tells me the batmo won. Pushes more air with less pressure which reduced egts.

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In the real world boost is the restriction to flow. So let's talk about it, if one turbo versus another turbo on the same setup was to make less boost under the same conditions it would be flowing less air! The only missing piece is the temperature of the compressed air will have some influence on it. So if you are seeing less boost and more HP, your gain most likely came from the turbine side of the turbo NOT the compressor. This is just why in order to test a compressor wheel you need to only change the compressor wheel and NOT the turbine side. I do not care if it supposed to be the same, it has to be the same one not just like it.
 
oldestof11 said:
That tells me the batmo won. Pushes more air with less pressure which reduced egts.

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We Don't Race flow charts or compressor maps . We race Engines , The Dyno and the Race Track are the real proving Grounds ........ Anyone that's Actually Spent time on a engine Dyno for a day or two or three . Knows things you think will work don't and things you think Wouldn't work do.
 
Diesel Tech said:
In the real world boost is the restriction to flow. So let's talk about it, if one turbo versus another turbo on the same setup was to make less boost under the same conditions it would be flowing less air! The only missing piece is the temperature of the compressed air will have some influence on it. So if you are seeing less boost and more HP, your gain most likely came from the turbine side of the turbo NOT the compressor. This is just why in order to test a compressor wheel you need to only change the compressor wheel and NOT the turbine side. I do not care if it supposed to be the same, it has to be the same one not just like it.
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Or, more HP on less boost could also come from a more efficient compressor wheel. Less temp rise means a denser charge, lower discharge pressure required.

If they are just swapping the CHRA's, then the turbine wheels must be the same size in order to work properly in the existing housing. Thats how I understood the challenge, not swapping the entire turbo, just the CHRA. You're not gonna hammer a 92mm turbine in the housing for a 87mm wheel, or put a 83mm in the 87mm housing.
 
How much do you believe that you can drop in boost pressure and makeup with temperature? I think if you sit down and run the numbers your going to find out that they would have to drop temperature by more than is possible and about double the efficiency to see any sizable gain when trying to measure at the rear tires. Also just because they are swapping the CHRA that brings in a complete set of variables not accounted for in there rules. All parts have machining tolerances and when you stack them all together as you do when you assemble a turbocharger it can and does change things by a measurable amount. I said it earlier that just hand fitting the turbine and compressor clearances to the tight side of stock specifications makes for a measurable change most of the time. This is just why you only change ONE thing at a time when making comparisons, not several as there rules state.
 
Diesel Tech said:
How much do you believe that you can drop in boost pressure and makeup with temperature? I think if you sit down and run the numbers your going to find out that they would have to drop temperature by more than is possible and about double the efficiency to see any sizable gain when trying to measure at the rear tires. Also just because they are swapping the CHRA that brings in a complete set of variables not accounted for in there rules. All parts have machining tolerances and when you stack them all together as you do when you assemble a turbocharger it can and does change things by a measurable amount. I said it earlier that just hand fitting the turbine and compressor clearances to the tight side of stock specifications makes for a measurable change most of the time. This is just why you only change ONE thing at a time when making comparisons, not several as there rules state.
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No, you need to change how the part is controlled as well. change the wheel, change the tune to match the change in airflow.
 
Lostnwalmart said:
I understand this but I doubt the average person on the street will be able to properly use that 7%. But maybe I have lost faith in the average diesel consumer.
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True but i doubt the average diesel consumer is looking at these turbos as a street driven turbo. I mostly see these on drag or pull specific trucks.
 
Powerstroked162 said:
One day, I'd like to take the opportunity to dunk my balls in your coffee... I'm also pretty certain that neither Chase or Brayden would want you to be speaking for them on such a subject. Maybe you should just stick to keeping Bill's pants warm and let the adults talk here
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x2. If it worked so great. Which I'm not saying it does or doesn't. Never used one. I would guess loads of people would be duplicating it and selling it themselves. To my knowledge you can't patent aerodynamics. So its free game for anyone with access to build wheels. Like anything else, if it's not protected it will be duplicated. Thats the name of the game. I was very happy with bullseyes 83mm (non batmo) and also have enjoyed numerous borg chargers.
 
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2Tone12V said:
x2. If it worked so great. Which I'm not saying it does or doesn't. Never used one. I would guess loads of people would be duplicating it and selling it themselves. To my knowledge you can't patent aerodynamics. So its free game for anyone with access to build wheels.
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You can patent the design. Actually IIRC you can patent almost anything. The issue is fighting proving how your patent is original, or if someone is copying your ideas.
 
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DIESEL_POWER said:
Good point aron. Honestly all i know is BW is a very reputable company, and there stuff performs better than advertised. This is the only Turbo company i can speak for.
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And your word don't mean chit. So save it for another forum. Nobody cares to hear you on this one.
 
zstroken said:
You can patent the design. Actually IIRC you can patent almost anything. The issue is fighting proving how your patent is original, or if someone is copying your ideas.
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LOL trust me. I know all about that.... Remember where I work. I've read through plenty of court items that show how people can get away with it knowing they are in fact duplicating.
 
2Tone12V said:
LOL trust me. I know all about that.... Remember where I work. I've read through plenty of court items that show how people can get away with it knowing they are in fact duplicating.
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I almost mentioned that, but.... LOL

Of course one small design change, poof, no longer the same design, "we use different shaped lobes" blah blah blah.
 
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