Hamilton 4bt cam issue

I'm not completely sure of this myself, I understand not idling and keeping oil pressure up to eliminate possibility of the cam not getting oil pressure, I had water hooked up and ran it for 20min on a stand half throttle to break cam in and then put it in the truck. Idk the best answer for that
 
I too had issues with Hamilton's cam. It was a 188/200. I also had other issues and I neglected to add the zinc stuff when I changed the oil so I never placed any blame on the Hamilton product.

I think it was the #1 or #2 cam lobe was noticeably wore with pitting and I'm pretty sure the rest of the cam showed pitting. I'd have to go back in my build thread to make sure so no one quote me on this info.

Regardless, I e-mailed Zach himself and he was ready to ship me another cam on his dime and pretty much insisted. I didn't feel right about that as I didn't follow the instructions so I ordered and paid for a little smaller Hamilton.

I'm just a little surprised Hamilton spoke to you the way you say they did.
 
bad luck on the cam. mine spun a lobe as well but it was self-inflicted since I thought the oils I used had enough ZDDP content. Zinc has been removed even from the old spec oils to help keep catalytic converters alive.
Used cam shield or lucas since and no issue in the last 30k.
Ive seen pitting happen even in engines with stock valvetrain. doesnt take much for some debris to work its way up there and land in the wrong spot.
Have you cut up an oil filter to see if anything shows up? An oil analysis couldnt hurt either.
I like the hamilton stuff also. even with that failure and that feedback from them Id still buy another. I dont think its the fault of the cam or materials.
 
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Oil and oil filter are gone I did cut one in a previous oil change and didn't see any kind of metal in there. I thought all was well. I did just have a 45 min phone call with colt cams. He is very interested for me to try his stage 5 cam in my setup. Also he said my Hamilton can be refinished to fix the damage to it. Very knowledgable conversation.
 
superdutyfarmer said:
Looking for some info on guys running a Hamilton cam in a 4bt.
Hamilton has always been the cummins cam to use. Lots of them out there and few problems I ever heard of. So when I built my 4bt I decided to go Hamilton direction. 188/220 cam, beehive springs, locks/keepers, pushrods the whole deal. When I built the engine the machine shop messed up the pistons and ended up cutting them too much and lowering the compression more than I desired. I ran it for a year working bugs out and playing with it maybe 2k miles and that's generous didn't do a ton of driving it on street. No idea on drag passes maybe 50-100.
I pulled the engine to freshen it up and put regular marine pistons in it and when I pulled it apart I found the cam gear walking off the nose of the cam. My fault due to cam not being tapped for retainer I didn't not do anything to prevent it. I sent cam, head, a set of rods out to enterprise and they send me pictures of #2 cam lobe starting to pit on the obc. I changed oil 3x and used a good zinc additive with every oil change as instructed to. I called Hamilton and they said they garuntee nothing with their camshafts and it must have been something I did.
Anybody else have issues with low miles on cams and them starting to pit? I did put brand new 24v cummins tappets in with cam

I am trying to get pieces to put engine back together but now i don't know what to do about a camshaft. $550 every year to put a cam in? Are others lasting with no issues??
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I talked to the guys about your situation this morning. According to them, they are waiting for pictures of your cam to verify it is one of our cams, and to verify the type of failure as well as look at the lifter to verify they were new at the time the cam was installed. If your call was fielded by our new tech it is possible that the failure was not handled appropriately. If you want, call me on my cell at 1-512-525-3628. I would love to find out to whom you spoke and your side of the story.

I apologize for the pain in this regard, but we have had customers that call quite often that say they have a failed Hamilton cam which ends up being a cam from another manufacturer. There are quite a few people passing substandard cams off as Hamilton's these days. This week we had a customer send in a reground 184-215 narrow lobed 12v cam from a larger mid-west engine builder and said it was a hamilton... which is what he says he was told. After we analyzed the few lobes that were not wiped off the cam, it was obvious it was not ours. I apologize, but we have to have proof it is our cam before we proceed. This protects our name and keeps us from giving cams to cover issues that are not ours. If you send us pictures of your cam and lifters, or post them here, we will proceed with verifying it is ours and replacing it.

As for the it being a cummins OEM cam, all of our Cummins line-up is our own Castings, forgings or billets designed by us, for our use with the exception of the 4bt. The 4bt market is so small that it does not make sense to pay $20,000 for the tooling to have a cam cast for 10-15 cams a year. That is why we do not have the wider 1.050"-1.100" lobes that we offer on our other cams. On 4bt cams only,we start with a Cummins cam and then grind our profile on it. the lobes are around .900" width which dictates we do not have the surface area to support extreme pressures and maintain the film strength between the lifter and the lobe. If a new lifter is not used, this amplifies the possibility of wear. Used lifters are concave with means only the outside edges of the cam support the whole load. This means only the outside .200" per side of the lobe is supporting what should be supported by the entire .900" if all was new. Colt, bullet, scheid, haisley, Vogel, or any other company that make a 4bt cam is in the same boat, I know of no cams with a lobe width much wider than .900" for the 4bt

All of our other Cummins cams are our own blanks... period.

As far as the gentleman upset that we do not offer any directions included, this is correct. We have all of that listed on our website so that it is available to anybody anywhere. How do I install my cam, how do I check centerline, what is correct break-in procedure, how do I check clearances, how do I change installed centerline, how do I set lash. All of these questions are covered with a technical write up or a video on our site.
http://www.hamiltoncams.com/cams.html
 
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Cam was bought from pure diesel power when they had a free shipping sale. The fella I talked to basically said I was ok my own. He did not ask for any pictures or more information. The cam is at enterprise now and will be shipped back to me next week with the rest of the machine work. If your interested still I can send pictures or any other info you'd like. I have your cam card at home that goes along with it.

I also work at a cummins dealership and put brand new cummins 24v tappets in with new cam shaft. I started with a block, head, and crank everything was brand new at time of initial install.
 
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97rada said:
I have a hard time doing 20 min of break it while not seating the rings properly on the dyno. Can anyone explain specifically why that type of break in is needed rather than loading it down? From a pure metal/ hardness stand point.
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In machining of the cam lobe and lifter there are peaks and valleys on a micro-scale left after machining. Zddp and other additive packages spring into action when head and friction appear. As it has been explained to me by petroleum engineers when the head and friction appear, the zinc attacks the point of contact and keeps them separated. Lack of zinc can allow metal transfer which proliferates heat and erosion of the part.

The first 5 minutes of run time of your new cam dictate in large part how long the cam lives

On our site there are detailed instructions on startup, pre-lube, zinc content necessity etc. here is what we suggest.

The first 5 minutes of operation of your new camshaft is very important. Ninety percent of all issues arise in this period and have to do with inadequate lubrication.

To make sure that you have no issues during break-in, follow these few suggestions.

- Make sure that the cam has a Liberal amount of quality assembly lube applied

-DO NOT let the engine start without oil pressure

-if this is a new engine, be sure to put a liberal amount of assembly lube in the oil pump and prime the oil filter

-if this is a used engine, be sure to change the oil after you have done your break-in procedure since the filter and the oil system is already primed and the engine will get oil pressure much faster than if the oil is changed at the same time

-disconnect the fuel system and spin the engine with the starter until oil pressure can be read or until oil is coming out of the rocker arms

-Do not let the starter run for more than 10 seconds at a time

-after oil pressure has been verified, let the engine start and run for five minutes at 1200-1500rpm then shut engine down

-Adjust valves then you are cleared to abuse your engine. Enjoy the added airflow

-if you need to re-torque or "hot-torque"the head, do so before adjusting valves. Re-torquing the head changes the valve lash setting, so it is important to set lash last.

2-3 times a year I get calls from customers that have lash starting to get loose on the last 3 cylinders. This is caused from poor lubrication at the time of initial start-up. In this case the cam literally eats its way through the block away from the force of the tappets. Assembly lube and oil pressure on start-up are a pretty big deal to your cam. Don't let this happen to you.

Also, if this is an existing engine, be sure to change tappets. Also, never change oil at the same time a cam is installed. This amplifies issues by making the engine run longer before oil pressure is achieved. Get it running and then change oil. This will allow oil pressure to be realized quicker and will decrease the possibility of galling a journal bearing.
 
superdutyfarmer said:
Cam was bought from pure diesel power when they had a free shipping sale. The fella I talked to basically said I was ok my own. He did not ask for any pictures or more information. The cam is at enterprise now and will be shipped back to me next week with the rest of the machine work. If your interested still I can send pictures or any other info you'd like. I have your cam card at home that goes along with it.

I also work at a cummins dealership and put brand new cummins 24v tappets in with new cam shaft. I started with a block, head, and crank everything was brand new at time of initial install.
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I will talk with the guys about how they handled the call. Regardless, as stated above, if you will get me some pictures to verify it is our cam and pictures of the damage, we will work towards getting you a new cam.
 
So basically the only reason to rev the engine is keep oil pressure high correct? That's easy enough. Will do that as I warm the engine up on the dyno. Should work well
 
Teamfreeman04 said:
All I run is colt cams, Geoff is a good dude to call and bounce stuff off of him, makes a great product as well in my opinion and if I am not mistaken that is where Zack got his start in the business? and he grinds all of his own stuff.
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Geoff and I worked together early on. Unqualified statement.. Geoff is a good guy and very knowledgeable on camshafts.

That being said, I hate having what we have done with Cams, springs, pushrods, cylinder heads and profile design etc. being placed under his shadow. All of our designs are made on the best software, cut on the best grinders, with profiles made by an ex Crane cam engineer, and cut on the best designed cores. The only exception to this is the 4bt. It is cut on the best core available, not the best that could be done.
 
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97rada said:
So basically the only reason to rev the engine is keep oil pressure high correct? That's easy enough. Will do that as I warm the engine up on the dyno. Should work well
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Yes it gets oil pressure up as well as heat. Without heat, the gasket will not seat and you will not get a successful retorque.
 
jedeka said:
Colt grinds their own cams and has lifters made with correct taper so they will spin. Colt used to grind all of Hamilton's cams when he was Hamilton Diesel.
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Colt grinds some of his cams, some he has manufactured.

In the past, colt ground some of the cams for hamilton diesel.
 
superdutyfarmer said:
Even though they say that they grind their own cams from their own castings I am finding holes in their story, the cam has a cummins part number on the back of it that is a general cam out of a 100-150hp 4bt, I did some searching and found a genuine cummins marine cam part number out of a 250hp engine. I think that's gonna be the route that I end up going. Talking with Brandon at enterprise we think that Hamilton reground this cam and just got too far into the finish coating causing the cam to pit
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As I have stated above the 4bt cam is a new cummins cam, reground to our specs. Nothing to hide on that front. I think your assessment is pure conjecture without pictures of the cam and the lifters and without measuring the shape and hardness as well as having an oil sample analyzed for zinc. All things we like to cover before we send out a new cam. If these are not addressed and the issue is not found, a new cam could do the same thing. WE need to cover the bases and find the source of the wear..............

"I think" is not very scientific....
 
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Texashighways said:
If you will look at some of the verbage in your link. I think you will find some plagiarism, from our procedure, specifications and profiles...........
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I see that now, after reading your write up! Thanks Zach.
 
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It's Apples and Oranges to some but my last engine I broke in with a dry block and did the normal rpm and time as per normal cam instructions. These are much different that trying that on a gasser as the block heats up too quick.

Jim

97rada said:
I have a hard time doing 20 min of break it while not seating the rings properly on the dyno. Can anyone explain specifically why that type of break in is needed rather than loading it down? From a pure metal/ hardness stand point.
Click to expand...
 
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