2 blown Cummins 450 ISX motors in 2 weeks...

[Lockport]

lemme tell you a few things about the ISX being as i work at Cummins.

Ceramic plungers- shatter, go thru the oil system take out everything, literally, i have pictures and have seen this many times. i approve engine swings because of this failure.

the coolant usage- 2 things that are very common, EGR cooler of course, the 2nd one is counterbore fretting, the liners are rotating inside the counterbore and taking out the machining marks aka fretting, the first sign would be a blown head gasket, tech measures protrusion and says hey got tilted liners, pull all 6 cut the counterbores and put the new updated liners in it.

oil usage- THE MOST COMMON thing that happens to these things is what is called carbon packing. what happens is carbon will pack inside the ringlands, pushing on the rings, making the rings have full face wear and polishing the liners. Cummins has come out with a reduced diameter piston to fix this issue, however they do re carbon pack every so often.

THE NEW CM2350s since theyve been released, they have issues with the oil pump drive gear cracking. instantanious loss of oil pressure from this, and turbo sector shafts seizing up.

if you guys ever need anything feel free to pm me or call, text i dont care. i do this every day and theres not a whole lot i havent seen on all the engines cummins produces.

Cummins is coming out with a new engine that will not have a DPF and still meets tier 4 emissions. i can help you keep these things on the road if you can hold off a couple years till it comes out. im not releasing any information for my own sake. :blahblah1::blahblah1:

I have a 2012 Kenworth T660 that has(had) a ISX 600hp. I also purchased 450k miles/48mo extended warranty on major components including injectors, turbo, waterpump and dpf system as well. On Sept 28, 2013 I was towed to Wallwork Truck Center in Fargo. They told me the fuel pump gear came apart and went through the fuel system taking out all injectors and Cummins wasn't covering it because it was 254k miles/23mo which amounts to 4k over/ 1mo under the Standard warranty expiry. I was forced to pay $14k and submit to Cummins Policy and was expecting they may cover 90%. They returned 50% less towing.

In the last week of February this year, a bearing turned on the crank. Subsequently, the #4 rod bearing also turned and let go of the rod, scoring the block and I was told went through the top.

Cummins identified pitting on the cam shaft and eroding lobes, called the camshaft assembly the failure point and agreed to pay for only that. This left $25k in additional work to make this engine run again. That is to say if they could've got a block sooner than 5 months. The mechanic found a rebuilt 600hp for $36,000.

At that point, my mechanic asked why the previous repair wasn't covered. He said he also asked the Rapidserve contact why and they didn't want to comment. At his urging, I emailed Western Canada Cummins rep, Robert Freisen, whom I was on the phone with all through the days of the Wallwork repair and never received a satisfactory explanation, who suggested I email Wallwork noting my 48mo warranty and the listing of Fuel Pump Gear (this must distinguish the mechanical from the electrical primer pump and not mean only the gear). They replied that it was the plungers and not the gear and had it been the gear it would have been covered. This was news to me and the first I'd heard of it. Interestingly, the mechanic year down states metal was found throughout but no mention at all of ceramics.

In both of these instances I have never been more astounded at the lack of ethics displayed by Cummins. I paid over $11,000 in extended warranties on this motor and the truck was on the road 28 months. Half the miles on this unit were also run empty as it hauls oversize and overdimensional (overdims are frequently below legal weights. Oil change interims were never over 20,000miles, halfway between Severe and Moderate Cummins maintenance intervals.

I was forced to call the financier and announce it cannot produce revenue as is and the security I provide in the form of extended warranties had failed. I have until months end to convince Cummins to accept responsibility and replace this lemon, at which time the financier will sell it as is, I will be unable to finance a new truck and my livelihood is lost.

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[biggy238]

One of the words not brought up in your post is Contingent. As in Contingent damage.

If a major, warranted component fails, resulting in the failure of other components, they should be covered as Contingent failures.

I don't know why that hasn't been done. I always thought it was a matter of legality surrounding the warranty.

Monkey Fist Rage

 

[97rada]

I have a 2012 Kenworth T660 that has(had) a ISX 600hp. I also purchased 450k miles/48mo extended warranty on major components including injectors, turbo, waterpump and dpf system as well. On Sept 28, 2013 I was towed to Wallwork Truck Center in Fargo. They told me the fuel pump gear came apart and went through the fuel system taking out all injectors and Cummins wasn't covering it because it was 254k miles/23mo which amounts to 4k over/ 1mo under the Standard warranty expiry. I was forced to pay $14k and submit to Cummins Policy and was expecting they may cover 90%. They returned 50% less towing.

In the last week of February this year, a bearing turned on the crank. Subsequently, the #4 rod bearing also turned and let go of the rod, scoring the block and I was told went through the top.

Cummins identified pitting on the cam shaft and eroding lobes, called the camshaft assembly the failure point and agreed to pay for only that. This left $25k in additional work to make this engine run again. That is to say if they could've got a block sooner than 5 months. The mechanic found a rebuilt 600hp for $36,000.

At that point, my mechanic asked why the previous repair wasn't covered. He said he also asked the Rapidserve contact why and they didn't want to comment. At his urging, I emailed Western Canada Cummins rep, Robert Freisen, whom I was on the phone with all through the days of the Wallwork repair and never received a satisfactory explanation, who suggested I email Wallwork noting my 48mo warranty and the listing of Fuel Pump Gear (this must distinguish the mechanical from the electrical primer pump and not mean only the gear). They replied that it was the plungers and not the gear and had it been the gear it would have been covered. This was news to me and the first I'd heard of it. Interestingly, the mechanic year down states metal was found throughout but no mention at all of ceramics.

In both of these instances I have never been more astounded at the lack of ethics displayed by Cummins. I paid over $11,000 in extended warranties on this motor and the truck was on the road 28 months. Half the miles on this unit were also run empty as it hauls oversize and overdimensional (overdims are frequently below legal weights. Oil change interims were never over 20,000miles, halfway between Severe and Moderate Cummins maintenance intervals.

I was forced to call the financier and announce it cannot produce revenue as is and the security I provide in the form of extended warranties had failed. I have until months end to convince Cummins to accept responsibility and replace this lemon, at which time the financier will sell it as is, I will be unable to finance a new truck and my livelihood is lost.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

You have more options. Get in touch with a warranty admin. That engine Shoukd be covered with the extended warranty

 

[rockytopcummins]

I don't know what kind of work your trucks do. I'm sure if it's heavy duty you can spec one out, but for your price range you stated for a new truck, have they looked into gliders? There's a guy that runs for A&R that swore by Pete/Big Cat combo for years. He recently started running the Fitzgerald 389 gliders with 60 series Detroit turned up to 600 horse with 13 speeds and loves them. Says the fuel mileage and performance is better than anything he's ever driven. Just a thought to get em while the EPA still lets us.

 

[will24]

So they're all pieces of ****. I **** y'all not, the money we spend every week keeping oil in these motors could fund another 145k truck payment easily.

They have some serious oil problems. We lose turbos all the time too. Major dpf issues every week.

A broken DEF heater hose stopped our truck for 3 days, bull****

Okay rant over

The DEF hoses and such are all PACCAR, not cummins, keep that in mind, the doser unit and the exhaust parts are the only thing provided by cummins

 

[DirtyMaxx03]

we have 9 new Freightliners with detroits showing up in a couple weeks

 

[will24]

Not one that can't be defeated by a dealership.

Your dealership should have already had you filling out oil consumption logs to validate a warranty claim.
Are you going to Cummins dealers or chassis dealers?

Monkey Fist Rage

What he said... stop going to dealers first, next, find your local distributor and let them do your engine work... certified dealer or not, the distributor network is a FAR better option.

 

[97rada]

What he said... stop going to dealers first, next, find your local distributor and let them do your engine work... certified dealer or not, the distributor network is a FAR better option.

I feel like this is a huge problem, people are not taking them to the distributors.

 

[zfaylor]

Just my opinion but I would go the glider route any day over a new truck regardless of the cost difference.

 

[biggy238]

Just my opinion but I would go the glider route any day over a new truck regardless of the cost difference.

I smell the gliders being shot in the face in the next 18 months.

Tier (2) emissions and old brake technology violates the direction the industry is trying to move.

You guys might get a chuckle out of this. The 2014 CAT CT680 is a MAN 13L with Cummins supplied Bosch emissions controls. Seems Navistar didn't want to bother rebranding the Bosch parts they were already buying through Cummins.

Monkey Fist Rage

 

[jfaulkner]

I smell the gliders being shot in the face in the next 18 months.

Tier (2) emissions and old brake technology violates the direction the industry is trying to move.

wtf are you talking about, you can order a glider with disk brakes. Most gliders are ordered "rolling". The brake technology is the same as all the other new trucks rolling off the line. The rumor is they're wanting to tighten the reigns a little with either FET tax or requiring the parts come from a truck currently in your fleet.

 

[zfaylor]

I smell the gliders being shot in the face in the next 18 months.

Tier (2) emissions and old brake technology violates the direction the industry is trying to move.

You guys might get a chuckle out of this. The 2014 CAT CT680 is a MAN 13L with Cummins supplied Bosch emissions controls. Seems Navistar didn't want to bother rebranding the Bosch parts they were already buying through Cummins.

Monkey Fist Rage

A glider is simply something that uses 70% of reconditioned parts. The axles can be reconfigured with abs, disc brakes, hell they can even be old wedge brakes.

 

[Kalinchuk]

96towrigdodge, was wondering if you or anyone could help me with my cummins isx problem also.

I have an 05 cummins isx cm870 that's using a ridicules amount of oil. I have to add about 4 gallons of oil after a day of driving about 700 miles.

It has 1 million miles and I know it is a lot but that doesn't seem right. When I'm using the engine break is when I actually smell the oil. If I'm pulling empty it doesn't use that much oil. But when I'm loaded it pushes all the oil out the blow by. The truck gets covered in oil underneath.

I installed a bigger crank case vent hose to see if that would help but no change. You think the turbo or compressor could cause such high crank case pressures?
The turbo doesn't have excessive play and my air builds up in a reasonable time.

 

[will24]

Has the engine ever been overhauled?

 

[biggy238]

96towrigdodge, was wondering if you or anyone could help me with my cummins isx problem also.

I have an 05 cummins isx cm870 that's using a ridicules amount of oil. I have to add about 4 gallons of oil after a day of driving about 700 miles.

It has 1 million miles and I know it is a lot but that doesn't seem right. When I'm using the engine break is when I actually smell the oil. If I'm pulling empty it doesn't use that much oil. But when I'm loaded it pushes all the oil out the blow by. The truck gets covered in oil underneath.

I installed a bigger crank case vent hose to see if that would help but no change. You think the turbo or compressor could cause such high crank case pressures?
The turbo doesn't have excessive play and my air builds up in a reasonable time.

In my opinion your rings are done.

There should be a procedure to check the blowby gas flow and determine if its excessive.

Monkey Fist Rage

 

[biggy238]

A glider is simply something that uses 70% of reconditioned parts. The axles can be reconfigured with abs, disc brakes, hell they can even be old wedge brakes.

I am aware. This defeats the price incentive to upgrade.

Monkey Fist Rage

 

[Snedge]

96towrigdodge, was wondering if you or anyone could help me with my cummins isx problem also.

I have an 05 cummins isx cm870 that's using a ridicules amount of oil. I have to add about 4 gallons of oil after a day of driving about 700 miles.

It has 1 million miles and I know it is a lot but that doesn't seem right. When I'm using the engine break is when I actually smell the oil. If I'm pulling empty it doesn't use that much oil. But when I'm loaded it pushes all the oil out the blow by. The truck gets covered in oil underneath.

I installed a bigger crank case vent hose to see if that would help but no change. You think the turbo or compressor could cause such high crank case pressures?
The turbo doesn't have excessive play and my air builds up in a reasonable time.

4 gallons in 700 miles. It needs fixed.

 

[jfaulkner]

I am aware. This defeats the price incentive to upgrade.

Monkey Fist Rage

Price incentive? The incentive isn't usually price it's "I have a 2015 truck with no problematic emissions junk"

 

[biggy238]

Price incentive? The incentive isn't usually price it's "I have a 2015 truck with no problematic emissions junk"

Which is called cost of ownership. A price factored in at the time of purchase by wise individuals.
Anything else you would like to interject?

My first conjecture still stands, gliders will be done like everything else the .gov doesn't like. They will be outlawed or the price will be driven so high through FET or the cost of compliance that they wont be economically attractive. I think this will happen in the next 18 months.

Beyond that, i really appreciate everyone's anxiousness to school me on the matter. I don't work for a dealer that sells engines, transmissions, clutches, drivelines, chassis. Nope. None of that happens here.

Faulkner i missed your first reply but we really weren't that far off.


Monkey Fist Rage

 

[zfaylor]

Which is called cost of ownership. A price factored in at the time of purchase by wise individuals.
Anything else you would like to interject?

My first conjecture still stands, gliders will be done like everything else the .gov doesn't like. They will be outlawed or the price will be driven so high through FET or the cost of compliance that they wont be economically attractive. I think this will happen in the next 18 months.

Beyond that, i really appreciate everyone's anxiousness to school me on the matter. I don't work for a dealer that sells engines, transmissions, clutches, drivelines, chassis. Nope. None of that happens here.

Faulkner i missed your first reply but we really weren't that far off.


Monkey Fist Rage

Settle down compadre. I work for a large used concrete truck supplier and glider company so put away the dik measuring stick for a second. I was not questioning your intelligence on the matter just making it a simple statement that things can and are modernized on a glider typically to keep the feds happy in reply to yours where you mentioned outdated technology being a big issue.