ARP 425's who has the right way to install?

1

1985cucv

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ive looked time and time again on how to install these right and it seems as though everyone does them different.

im gonna be putting in arp 425's pulling 1 at a time. a few questions i have

1. do you need to use the arp lube on both sides of the stud?

2. do you have to retorque them? or do you just torque them to the 125 mark like the instructions say and then leave them? if you need to retorque after how many miles?

thanks for any replies.
 
Just the arp lube on the one end. Do the initial torque in stages, 100 110 120 125 something like that. Then start your engine let it come to operating temp, let cool, retorque one at a time, by loosening off and then torqueing to 125. It is recommended to re-torque 3 times, the last time after you have driven it for a little bit gotten a few heat cycles through it. Hope that helps, also dont forget to do it in a pattern
 
No just on the nut end put lube on the washer both sides and on the threads. Install them snug into the block and then tighten to 125. drive it100 miles and retorque to 135. Then your done! Most wait till they melt their first piston before putting studs in.:doh:LOLLOL
 
morkable said:
Just the arp lube on the one end. Do the initial torque in stages, 100 110 120 125 something like that. Then start your engine let it come to operating temp, let cool, retorque one at a time, by loosening off and then torqueing to 125. It is recommended to re-torque 3 times, the last time after you have driven it for a little bit gotten a few heat cycles through it. Hope that helps, also dont forget to do it in a pattern
Click to expand...

i thought this was just fire-ring procedure?
Studs are studs, why retorque with stock head gasket.?

divide max torque by 4 to get your torque increments. (i.e. max torque 160 would be 40-80-120-160)

1985cucv said:
ive looked time and time again on how to install these right and it seems as though everyone does them different.

im gonna be putting in arp 425's pulling 1 at a time. a few questions i have

1. do you need to use the arp lube on both sides of the stud?

2. do you have to retorque them? or do you just torque them to the 125 mark like the instructions say and then leave them? if you need to retorque after how many miles?

thanks for any replies.
Click to expand...
p.s.: if you are replacing a head bolt with a stud, one at a time:
remove 1 head bolt at a time (i like anti-seize on the block threads)
thread in stud hand tight (or allen key tight) LOL
apply arp lube to both sides of washer threads and nut (don't be frugal) BE LIBERAL!!!
torque right to max..
repeat 25 more times
make sure to double check all the studs to ensure they were torqued. being that you are doing one at a time, you shouldn't miss one, but it's good to mark them with a paint pen or something, justt to make sure...
you must clearance the intermediate valve cover ('rocker box') to clear rear stud height
...done...

I don't understand the re-torques with the stock gasket guys.. There's no reasoning.. The gasket is already as crushed as it's going to get and it already has heat cycles on it.. Not to mention, the factory bolts are 'torque to yield', so there is already one hell of a squeeze on the head gasket. $.02
 
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I only said the retorque for piece of mind for novices. Just in case he missed one or just didn't get one right. better safe than sorry!
 
I am a firm believer in retorques. Your head gasket (even MLS) will crush to a certain degree. If you dont believe it, mark your studs before you do a retorque, you will gain some.

Also DO NOT bottom out your studs. Run them into the bottom, and then turn them out 1/4 is of a turn.
 
in diesel power beans diesel did head studs and he put anti seize on the block bolts, tightened with allen, lubed the nut washer and threads, tightened to 100 then 110, 120 130, 135, 140, 145, 150 starting with exhaust side on cylinder 1 and working your way to the intake side before going on down the line to cylinder 6. I did this and have had no problems and it has been about six months
 
official instructions FWIW

Here's the instructions that came with my standard A1's. They went in my 12 valve. i just did one cold retorque with a new HG and went to 125 lbs each time. Holding 57lbs of boost so far.
 

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It says that in BOLD,, very very important not to bottom out your studs. They need to have that little bit of space. Also i have always been told, and have always used a circular pattern for torquing down studs. start in the middle and go around in a circular pattern till you finish. As what Steve said, I use some oil on the threads that go into the block. I was running over 80psi with no o-rings on my old engine with this method. It works
 
Make sure the holes for the studs aren't full of oil or coolant too...that ain't good.
 
Is there any logical reason why not to bottom out the stud, other than the directions say so? Just curious...
 
What part of the valve cover needs to be grounded down so the stud doesn't hit it? If somebody can place the inside of the valve cover facing up and point an arrow where to grind that would be nice.. I'm still lost as to where to grind on it. Thanks
 
Silver6spd said:
What part of the valve cover needs to be grounded down so the stud doesn't hit it? If somebody can place the inside of the valve cover facing up and point an arrow where to grind that would be nice.. I'm still lost as to where to grind on it. Thanks
Click to expand...

Its on the rocker cover where it hits. Towards the back of the engine, not sure exact location but a 2 minute little touch up is all it is.
 
KILLER 'B' said:
why? :confused:
Click to expand...

If you tighten the studs into the hole, it will try to 'push' the threads out of the block as its screwed in, like a jack bolt. When you go to torque the nuts, they are going to try and turn the stud more, tightening the stud in. So now you have the stud bottomed out, trying to push the threads out, plus the load from actually stretching the stud. Good way to fail the thread.

Also, marking the nut to see how far it turns is pointless on these studs, since they have different pitches on either end. The stud has 1.75 pitch on the bottom, 1.25 on top. It backs out a quarter turn, the stud just came up 0.4375mm, and you now have to turn the nut a little more than a third of a turn.
 
ram4by said:
Here's the instructions that came with my standard A1's. They went in my 12 valve. i just did one cold retorque with a new HG and went to 125 lbs each time. Holding 57lbs of boost so far.
Click to expand...

morkable said:
It says that in BOLD,, very very important not to bottom out your studs.
Click to expand...

In the instructions just posted it reads, "Thread studs in to block SNUG, DO NOT TORQUE STUDS IN BLOCK".

Snug would mean bottomed out, would it not?

Tate said:
If you tighten the studs into the hole, it will try to 'push' the threads out of the block as its screwed in, like a jack bolt.
The stud has 1.75 pitch on the bottom, 1.25 on top.
Click to expand...

:clap: Now please explain how a 1.75 thread will turn on the far end of the stud when you have a 1.25 thread pitch on the nut you're turning? The only way the stud will turn while you are torquing, is if the threads are boogered up on either the nut and/or top of stud OR if there is not enough lubrication.. When we do a FIRE RING re-torque, we go as far as loosening and re-lubing one at a time through the whole sequence. I was able to get 1/4 turn out of each nut for 3 re-torques. On the forth they clearly stopped moving, so we didn't bother to go any further. I have put studs on a stock gasket before. I torqued all 26 studs. Then after I was done, I went ahead and double checked that they were all torqued to the proper specifiaction and that none of them felt funny. I removed one nut, re-lubed, re installed the nut, and re-torqued. IT DID NOT MOVE Out of all the engines I have rebuilt and seen rebuilt, I or any one else, have not ever gone and told the customer that, "Hey, in a thousand hours or so, I should come back and make sure your head bolts are tight...."
 
I think arp has a a paste that u only have to tq once. No need to do them a second time. From what I was reading
 
UNBROKEN said:
Make sure the holes for the studs aren't full of oil or coolant too...that ain't good.
Click to expand...

x2 o and PS everyone and their brother seems to be the ARP master install tech ha ha. Pick a method that seems right and roll with it.
Brandon
 
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