Building a Performance Marine Engines

[goatskin]

I think a duramax could be made to work, but for the simple fact he is looking for a mechanical injection system rules it out. Looking forward to hearing the progress on this build. Keep the Info coming!

A small correction, please. I am not looking for a mech injection system, per se, I just see more robust simplicity, easier/cheaper maintenance, more hp/l and better fuel economy in a non-electronic engine.

I will grant that consumer diesels have their place, just not WOT in the English Channel with several hundred thousand £ at stake ... or halfway between Key West and Cancun with a storm brewing.

There is pretend and there is real, and the DM is the former, it seems.

Inshore BBC replacement for a poker-run boat? Sure.

 

[9724VF350]

Let Greg and Wade each build a engine for it. Put payment plus 100K on a island that is 9 hours away at 60kts. Make the payment disappear in 9 1/2 hours. Give them 1 paddle and a 22 short pistol with 1 round. Make cabin video and audio live on CompD.

 

[goatskin]

Let Greg and Wade each build a engine for it. Put payment plus 100K on a island that is 9 hours away at 60kts. Make the payment disappear in 9 1/2 hours. Give them 1 paddle and a 22 short pistol with 1 round. Make cabin video and audio live on CompD.

Sounds like a race to me.
I'm in.

And you gotta come back, too.

I got plenty of fuel capacity.

When/where and ... is there a Calcutta?

Please, who are Greg and Wade? (srsly, I have no idea.)

 

[StainlessRRA]

Sounds like a race to me.
I'm in.

And you gotta come back, too.

When/where and is there a Calcutta?

Please, who are Greg and Wade? (srsly, I have no idea.)

The two guys who you are making an ass out off, keep up the good work my friend. LOL

I'll type some more later about those plugs, I'm at a bbq and being on the phone even this much is rude!

 

[oldestof11]

Greg Hogue is Comp461, self proclaimed diesel God that sells products, makes up programs, and never finishes a project before the sponsor pulls the plug.

Wade Moody is diesel power. He can race test and tunes like no tomorrow and get "world records"until recently. His mouth is big and his shoulder is bigger from all the patting on the back he gives himself.

Both think the dm is the best thing since sliced bread.

Wade worked with Banks iirc and Greg was part of Dr performance. Search their usernames and you will have hours of laughs, crying, and general dumbfounded look as you read the stuff they post.

 

[USARMY12V]

Certainly not your average "rookie" coming on to the forum. What turbochargers are you thinking of using? I saw what pressure ratios, but have any idea on models?

 

[9724VF350]

Nothing wrong with an aluminum duramax endurance engine in a marine atmosphere. We accually have designed a platform for a customer on the westcoast wanting to do the same thing, only less HP.

The aluminum block I was speaking of is tremendously stronger the copy in aluminum of a stock block that LSM did. The block is billet aluminum and have replaceable sleeves. There are aftermarket heads for the Duramax come on the market in the next few months from two major mainstream cylinder head manufactures. With these blocks and heads and a reasonable short stroke, 3.600 the piston speed would be lower and aid longevity. The electronic is the only way to go with 40 degrees of timing swing on the fly vs. fixed timing. Now to the fuel, The Shell LM 24 is no longer available, or available if you have a quota. I would use a blend of GTL Syndiesel and canola oil.

^^^^^^^^^^ These guys,

Sounds like a race to me.
I'm in.

And you gotta come back, too.

When/where and is there a Calcutta?

Please, who are Greg and Wade? (srsly, I have no idea.)

I had to google Calcutta. LOL Sure, sounds fun.


I guess I forgot to specify that they are the crew, but I'm sure everyone has figured that out.

 

[USARMY12V]

Also, maybe just me thinking incorrectly, but wouldn't utilizing sea water to cool anything obviously require you adapting a non-fluid dynamic opening into the hull and create more drag negating fresh (cool) waters gain over standard coolant?

 

[goatskin]

Also, maybe just me thinking incorrectly, but wouldn't utilizing sea water to cool anything obviously require you adapting a non-fluid dynamic opening into the hull and create more drag negating fresh (cool) waters gain over standard coolant?

Yep. Drilling a hole through the hull and having a short angled pipe sticking down is the quick&dirty way it has been done and still is from some builders.

There are several other ways, incuding prettier pickups attached to the transom, and a very elegant way to do it (and is pretty trash-free) is to have a short section of the transom curved above the flow, and water follows the curve.

I'll do it more basic, less drag, more water ... the part of the boat that is both the deepest and in the water more than the transom, is the rudder(s)m drill a vertical ½" hole in the trailing edge of the rudder, plumb the top of the hole into your sea strainers ... you have to plumb it with hydraulic lines to avoid blowouts.

 

[6.4 F-350]

I have not a clue, neither. I know in the big, slow diesels, they have pop-off valves. I never thought about it, other than I have not had a freeze plug save any car engine I manage to freeze.

I thought they were decorative, like teats on a boar hog.

I think u just answered my dumb statement, pop off valves make more sence.

 

[goatskin]

Certainly not your average "rookie" coming on to the forum. What turbochargers are you thinking of using? I saw what pressure ratios, but have any idea on models?

Thanks, but us ignorant folks have to learn lessons slowly, and by ones, not in a bunch.

To answer your question, 'dunno' I'll know more later this week when I have read enough to be able to understand the language and ask stupid questions.

My 'thoughts' (which can be changed quicker than a minnow can swim a dipper) are based on what Zach Hamilton has told me, abt modest compression ratios, tappet cams, enough-but-not-too-much wind ....

Factor A: I can't have a wild turbo. When the boat flies, rpm will be limited, but if the turbo spools up, and builds 1500+ foot-pounds, when I hit the solid water a second, second & ½ later, something critical, like a propeller blade or even a shaft could twist or break. That said, I WANT some torque, so when the prop bites, there is no lag & loss of speed, plus starting back up again.

This means (to me) a small manifold turbo, waste gated at 1 or 1½ Bar, and a second, larger, addressable turbo, where I can tune for blue smoke when the seas are calm, the finish line is in sight, and I have lots of gas.

Think Spinal Tap and a gain knob that goes up to 11.

Scheid thinks I need a good two-stage turbo, or maybe 3 small ones. Dunno. He & I were spending time talking abt stuff that goes up and down, more.

What I don't want is sequential turbos that give me an unplanned shot of go.

If you have thoughts, I would be pleased to know them.

 

[goatskin]

Greg & Wade ... "We'll have jam tomorrow."

nothankyew

Thanks, all.

 

[USARMY12V]

I have been pondering this turbo situation and while I myself am by no means an expert either, triples as we call them may be more advantageous than compounds as you could afford to run the turbos easier than you would with just two, however, then you are putting on a little more weight than versus two turbos.

Seems to me water cooled ball bearings are your best bet for 6hr continuous use cycles. Again, lots would depend on oil cooling abilities if you were to use regular journal bearing, oil cooled units or something with coolant I suppose. EGT's also factor in obviously. More air the lower temp you can keep these things. Our B series are able to continually work at 1250 degrees I believe, so that would help you immensely. What are the rules for injectables such as water?

 

[estrada5.9]

Scheid thinks I need a good two-stage turbo, or maybe 3 small ones. Dunno. He & I were spending time talking abt stuff that goes up and down, more.

One would imagine you will get some good knowledge about turbos from Scheid.

Almost going to need a Performance Marine Section after this thread.

 

[goatskin]

I have been pondering this turbo situation and while I myself am by no means an expert either, triples as we call them may be more advantageous than compounds as you could afford to run the turbos easier than you would with just two, however, then you are putting on a little more weight than versus two turbos.

Seems to me water cooled ball bearings are your best bet for 6hr continuous use cycles. Again, lots would depend on oil cooling abilities if you were to use regular journal bearing, oil cooled units or something with coolant I suppose. EGT's also factor in obviously. More air the lower temp you can keep these things. Our B series are able to continually work at 1250 degrees I believe, so that would help you immensely. What are the rules for injectables such as water?

1250º eh! Carl, you earned your keep right there. MY preference in information is Pyrometers & Boost Gauges, with oil & water pressure and temp idiot lights, everything analog and hard-wired. Once the calibration matrix is done, tach and speedo have no value, and are distractions.

My preference is to have water nowhere near the outside of an engine, and the UIM rules are that exhausts and turbos have to be cooled, or insulated to no more than 150ºF atop the hatches. Turbos like being warm. Hello Iconel.

I look at turbos as maintenance items ... 3-500hours. Would running them hot & dry shorten that, much?

 

[goatskin]

One would imagine you will get some good knowledge about turbos from Scheid.

Almost going to need a Performance Marine Section after this thread.

Scheid has certainly been thoughtful. plain-spoke and suggestive. It took a while to get the concept across, as he has almost no marine background, but when he did, he did.

Generally, the Marine world is a low-information environment, with lots of keeping up with the jonses and dick-measuring. It is also 99% gas. The favoured engine builders are covered up, and they will honestly tell you that Sam needs this 1200 hp engine like he needs a 3rd ear. Since various race classes are mandated to use sealed Mercruiser engines and out-drives, so improvements are at the margins: controls, trim etc.

 

[CurtisEmery]

You may be able to get away with blankets on the hot side manifolds and plumbing to keep bilge temps at a manageable level. There are also a number of water cooled ball bearing Garrett turbos availible. Some of the cat journal bearing turbos have provisions for water cooling as well. If looked hard enough i am sure water cooled turbine housings could be sourced. I think you are on the right track using compound turbo charging. It wouldn't take an overly large set to achieve your goal of 800hp.

 

[Knoberman]

I like this thread!

 

[DIESEL_POWER]

May I know who is "we?'
How much?

However Our Seasoned drag engine is showing very well, and with a few changes would suit the boat enviroment well.​

That is not necessarily true. Period. In fact, that is like comparing chalk and cheese. Green chalk and orange cheese.

I'll ask again. This engine does not exist. Why should I even bother to learn to spell DM.

I can put you in touch with my syndicate if you would like to discuss a sponsorship, when/if you have a real engine and a real history.

I have lives in balance, and I do not think vapourware is an appropriate counter-convo, for your purposes, whatever they are.

I know exactly what your talking about, cast iron marine engines have been in opperation for a few years...no issue.

Aluminum block in the same platform is NO Issue.

"we" is NGM Diesel performance

NGM is the reason the Aluminum LSM block exsists...We put that idea together and rounded up some other shops for buy in, and made it happen.

We also have the only aluminum engine in running condition, on the second season of being the "worlds fastest diesel truck". Trust me i beat the tar out of that engine...

in addition some of the fastest/most powerful duramaxes on the planet run our valve train components and many run our engine packages.

We have innovated many components for the duramax and cummins engines. Over the last 2 years we have been in 7 different diesel publications for our products alone.

Im certainly not trying to float my boat (or yours) just stating the facts.

We bring product innovation from concept to completion. Here is a spread on our company in performance bussines mag.....Performance Business - Performance Business - April 2013 pg 36

Greg (comp461) is a coatail rider, who is quick to copy and take credit for things he has never done....... You are wasting time talking with Comp461. He has taken 5 + years to build and copy my old cast iron block... what on earth would he have to say about an aluminum version, especially since im the ONLY one with a aluminum one thats running!

 

[StainlessRRA]

Greg (comp461) is a coatail rider, who is quick to copy and take credit for things he has never done....... You are wasting time talking with Comp461. He has taken 5 + years to build and copy my old cast iron block... what on earth would he have to say about an aluminum version, especially since im the ONLY one with a aluminum one thats running!

Says the proud owner of the FASTEST SILVER 2004 FOUR WHEEL DRIVE QUAD CAB SHORT BOX SINGLE TURBO TRUCK IN THE COUNTRY! :hehe: