CR melted piston discussion, why, why not, and for the love of god how not to..

outlaw99 said:
whats your take on this...lol
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If you were asking me...Well, Jeff G. and I were talking today about the CR's....We want more info and just going to Steel Pistons for these trucks....He thinks this may be whats needed for these High HP CR trucks...



Steel Pistons............Lets here everyones thoughts!!!!




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It's high injection pressure combined with the wrong nozzle angle and bowl design on the 04.5 and newer trucks....that's all there is to it.
 
Big Swole said:
If you were asking me...Well, Jeff G. and I were talking today about the CR's....We want more info and just going to Steel Pistons for these trucks....He thinks this may be whats needed for these High HP CR trucks...



Steel Pistons............Lets here everyones thoughts!!!!
.
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When I do my build, I am going with steel pistons even though I have an 03. I think the peace of mind that you have the toughest pistons made is worth the cost. I think UNBROKEN hit the nail on the head but I am still going steel.*nx*

Joe
 
When my motoer goes I will go with steel pistons also... Peace of mind.

Ive got an 03 also and running 1900egts while sled pulling all last year Im sure I have some deformation of my pistons. It makes all of the good ol CR ticks and rattles...but its still running.
 
if, when I pull my head I find melted piston/s.... I may have to agree on the steel. If I don't though, not sure they'd make a difference. My truck has seen extreme heat on many occasions.
 
triton said:
if, when I pull my head I find melted piston/s.... I may have to agree on the steel. If I don't though, not sure they'd make a difference. My truck has seen extreme heat on many occasions.
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After talking to Jeff today and if I can afford it, I'm gonna drop the pan and pull the head this winter and go with Steel as well......Jeff's building his CR with Steel as well.....
 
Is this going to be the fix for now? Since we cant control the conditions that cause the piston to melt just get a piston that wont melt.... Works for me.
 
full pull said:
Is this going to be the fix for now? Since we cant control the conditions that cause the piston to melt just get a piston that wont melt.... Works for me.
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Besides the money, Works for me too!!!

I assume the steel will rob a bit of HP but dangit, I think it's totally worth it !!!
I need to slow it down a bit for QD anyway....


Who Make Steel Pistons for a CR.....Ross???? Any others????



EDIT: I just sent Ross sales dept. an email about what they have...hopefully I get a call or email about their product for these CR's....
 
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What are they currently made of? Al?

What kinda steel are we talkin here? I mean you gain about 1000+ degrees on them(solves your melting issue) but they will be pretty heavy compared to Al pistons.. Hows that factor in when the crank and such was designed to withstand the masses of Al flying around at 3000+ RPMs. Not to mention, what about localized heating? No one seems to know what the local temperatures are as final. I mean, yes we all see that these pistons are melting in the same fashion, so thats atleast traceable (Given enough time and someone who is good with stactical analysis). Cylinder temps are getting hot enough to melt but just how hot are they getting? I dont really know how you would figure that all out.. well I have some ideas but none of them are cheap or even feasable. You can work it therotically, but real word data would be important. I dont know how you would get actual temperature. Computer simulation would problay be the only close way.
 
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I also think of rotational Wieght on the crank when switching to steel. How much do steel pistons wiegh vs aluminum?
 
Spectre32 said:
Cylinder temps are getting hot enough to melt but just how hot are they getting?
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NO....cylinder temps are NOT getting hot enough to melt the pistons. Pistons are melting because 5 happy little 27,000 psi blowtorches are shooting right at the tops. Control the spray angle, get an aluminum piston with the correct bowl design....and watch the problems literally go away.

Is everyone missing the amount of 04.5 trucks this is happening to vs the 03/04 trucks? What's the difference between the 2 ? Think about it.

And seriously....the EGT thing ? Does anyone actually think there's THAT much difference between what an EGT probe in the manifold sees compared to what the cylinder temps are ? Y'all talk like the temps drop 6-800 degrees from the cylinder to the probe. News flash....AIN'T HAPPENING.
 
By the time the air/ gas ratio gets exhausted it's already multiplied its starting volume by your compression ratio. I've always imagined that would go to mean that peak cylinder temperatures are significantly higher than what it is by the time all that heat gets transferred into motion and engine coolant?


I will agree that a spray angle being less-than-stellar would have a whole lot to do with it. Swapping to the '03-'04 tips and pistons would seem to be a perfectly effective thing to do to solve the problem.
 
Begle1 said:
By the time the air/ gas ratio gets exhausted it's already multiplied its starting volume by your compression ratio. I've always imagined that would go to mean that peak cylinder temperatures are significantly higher than what it is by the time all that heat gets transferred into motion and engine coolant?


I will agree that a spray angle being less-than-stellar would have a whole lot to do with it. Swapping to the '03-'04 tips and pistons would seem to be a perfectly effective thing to do to solve the problem.
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Yeah but that has already been shown to NOT correct the problem. Beaner blew through a set already. I kinda contradicted myself above. I state localized temps, in relation to the fuel being sprayed in and then i generalize everything witht he cylinder temperature comment. That was my mistake, I personally feel that moving to steel pistons isnt fixing the problem, its just throwing a more stout target on the wall and hoping for the best.
 
Spectre32 said:
Yeah but that has already been shown to NOT correct the problem. Beaner blew through a set already...
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But were they the earlier pistons in a later block running the later injectors? Or was it a complete 04 or prior setup?
 
Spectre32 said:
Yeah but that has already been shown to NOT correct the problem. Beaner blew through a set already. I kinda contradicted myself above. I state localized temps, in relation to the fuel being sprayed in and then i generalize everything witht he cylinder temperature comment. That was my mistake, I personally feel that moving to steel pistons isnt fixing the problem, its just throwing a more stout target on the wall and hoping for the best.
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I agree but we are not all going to give up and park our CR trucks untill someone figures this out. There are many many people that are a hell of a lot smarter than me. I may not know how to fix it but I know steel pistons will prevent this type of engine failure. When the pistons will withstand the temps, what's next? Cracked blocks, cracked heads, burnt valves????? I guess time will only tell and when it does come around we will just have to come up with more solutions.:bang

Joe
 
Now that I am seeing the trend I am thinking my meltdown may have been mostly due to piston design. When I built it I intended to use 600 series injectors with 555 electronics. so I cut the bowls on the pistons to resemble the non-rentrant 600 series pistons. Don saw a picture of them and brought to my attention that the slope on the center dome wasnt quite steep enough so we switced over to 555 nozzles.

So look at what pistons seem to be having the most issues, same exact ones I machined them to look like. Goin back with rentrant pistons on the next build.
 
JOESHTRDDSL said:
I agree but we are not all going to give up and park our CR trucks untill someone figures this out. There are many many people that are a hell of a lot smarter than me. I may not know how to fix it but I know steel pistons will prevent this type of engine failure. When the pistons will withstand the temps, what's next? Cracked blocks, cracked heads, burnt valves????? I guess time will only tell and when it does come around we will just have to come up with more solutions.:bang

Joe
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In the mean time, the consensus is that "running rich" and wet (water injection) would be effective stop gap measures?
 
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