DT 466 F350 All purpose build w/ real intent on completion.

Bullrack said:
Turned any wrenches yet?
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No.

Still researching.
I did talk to a driveline shop, and they think it should be relatively easy to mount lager axles on the regular super duty with a lift kit, so the biggest obstacle with that is finding the axles, getting them re-geared, and shortened.

I looked at one axle, pulled out a tape measure, it was 100" from the edge of one tire to the other haha.
Definately need to get shortened. Those tires literally sit completly outside the truck body lol.

I've also been searching around for parts to try to get the ECM to read the sensors off the DT to use stock guages.

And I think I found a turbocharger setup; One of the new 466 VVT turbochargers bolted to the engine, and then a larger one from maybe a 12-15 liter engine.

I know there hasn't been much of any progress yet, but slowly everything is getting figured out.

Right now I'm looking for 8" lifts that might accommodate air bags.
 
I've also been entertaining the thought of using a 2003 or so 466 e.
Computer and fuel system off a 570 or whatever?
What did those go up to, 350 hp?

Fuel rail pressure resistor mod like the PSD? + 50 hp.
Meth injection ? + 100 hp?
Propane injection ? + 100 hp?
I know it sounds like a PITA, but for the power I wanted (600 hp roughly) is it worth all the extra work and expense?
Plus the "E" is supposed to be better on fuel too...
Just thinking out loud.

90% of the time the 466e would have all the power I'd need.

Then again the mechanical setup would be less BS ..............
 
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Actually, mechanical ones got better economy. On the EGR equipped 466e, it doesnt like resistors added. That injection system is just like a 6 litre Pstroke. The 570 hit 340hp, if I remember right. If you coukd hack the ECM and advance the timing, the fuel economy could be better.
 
smokin binder said:
Actually, mechanical ones got better economy. On the EGR equipped 466e, it doesnt like resistors added. That injection system is just like a 6 litre Pstroke. The 570 hit 340hp, if I remember right. If you coukd hack the ECM and advance the timing, the fuel economy could be better.
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Well simple then, mechanical engine it will be.

If only there was a way to change timing while running... idling in the driveway with 25* timing :bang

Everything is coming together well though... as soon as my project gets out of the garage, the engine will begin getting built.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntGDWAtN9jM"]Fleece Performance 5.9 Cummins VNT - YouTube[/ame]

A box similar to this would be ideal for the turbocharger.
 
Sooooo this thread was pretty good till i found out you still haven't begun. Lol but really I can't wait to see this thing get rolling. From what i see you should have no problem getting an easy 400 ponies outta this on a stock/ mildly built p-pump. Also, this whole turbo thing, have you considered a supercharger?? They are alot more efficient than they used to be, instant boost, and then you can compound them with a large single to satisfy any top end power you want? It will take up a little more room than a set of twins but with a small body lift and a sweet lookin cowl hood you should open up your bay a little bit more. And also about your axels, in the end you adding about 3/4 ton to the truck. Now people haul loads and trailers with a tounge weight much more than that every day, but that is on the rear axel which is typically stronger and doesn't move the way the front axel does. But by adding 400-500 pounds in engine, some in tranny, and then those huge freakin awesome looking tires that weight a bit on their own, i think you are going to be pretty rough on your axels and joints. Have you considered a set of rock wells? Plenty of people do that so you'll have plenty of examples, and don't quote me but they are still hydro n not air right? And the brakes are bigger (I'm assuming?) to give you the extra stopping power you should have to stop 42" 200lb tires.
And props for being different and not just droppin a cummins in like everyone else
 
Bigphil54 said:
Sooooo this thread was pretty good till i found out you still haven't begun. Lol but really I can't wait to see this thing get rolling. From what i see you should have no problem getting an easy 400 ponies outta this on a stock/ mildly built p-pump. Also, this whole turbo thing, have you considered a supercharger?? They are alot more efficient than they used to be, instant boost, and then you can compound them with a large single to satisfy any top end power you want? It will take up a little more room than a set of twins but with a small body lift and a sweet lookin cowl hood you should open up your bay a little bit more. And also about your axels, in the end you adding about 3/4 ton to the truck. Now people haul loads and trailers with a tounge weight much more than that every day, but that is on the rear axel which is typically stronger and doesn't move the way the front axel does. But by adding 400-500 pounds in engine, some in tranny, and then those huge freakin awesome looking tires that weight a bit on their own, i think you are going to be pretty rough on your axels and joints. Have you considered a set of rock wells? Plenty of people do that so you'll have plenty of examples, and don't quote me but they are still hydro n not air right? And the brakes are bigger (I'm assuming?) to give you the extra stopping power you should have to stop 42" 200lb tires.
And props for being different and not just droppin a cummins in like everyone else
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I also think this thread was cool till I noticed I hadn't started haha.
The truth is that I havent started for a few reasons...
First is that I've been pretty busy with work.. what a bummer. Maybe I should move into a trailer and go on welfare lol.
Second reason, is that this is a pretty big project for me, I've taken apart older trucks and stuff, but this is definately a few grades above my comfort zone. There will be a steep learning curve.
3rdly, My garage is full of other projects and stuff, like a go kart thats almost done, it's a side by side seater with an air cooled diesel, it takes a lot of room... Once thats finished I shoulld have a good spot to build an engine stand and start the 466 motor build.


As far as the supercharger, I can't see it happening. I think the turbocharger setup will be cheaper and more reliable. No room anyways.

The axles, you must have missed a page or 2, they will most likely be marmon axles, they are 10 bolt, and hydraulic brakes. They are normal for running 40" tires and are found on much heavier trucks that a pickup.
I think rockwells are better for offroading and such, marmon axles are what a shop said to use for road use.
The bad news is that they will have to be cut down, I measured a 4x4 truck from the outside tire edges, and it was 100" .

I have been thinking about this project for a couple years already, and I'm closer than ever to jumping into the point of no return hahaha.


I also don't know if you noticed, but I plan on pouring some decent money on a newer truck, and quality parts, not just slapping an old 466 in a 79 or something... this is going to cost quite a bit, so I need to make sure that I have everything figured out to a "t" before I start buying stuff.

I don't mind losing 40,000$ on a cool project, but I would be torn if it ended up with a pile of expensive truck parts sitting in the garage.
 
[ame="http://www.flickr.com/photos/79427079@N02/sets/72157631686513718/"]Go kart - a set on Flickr[/ame]

......

Thats the main reason nothing is started yet...

My side by side diesel go kart project.
That, and I've been spending a lot of family time lately , and going on a few trips too :)

Now I need to get a new insulated garage door, and a type of heat other than a 1500 w electric heater.
I used to have a big wood stove, and I burned waste oil in it, it worked really good but made a mess and took up too much room.
 
OK, so heres that plan. ...

I will be sourcing some things like motor, transmission, axles, tcase, evverything except the actual truck, simply because I don't want to end up with a truck body sitting around. It will cost a bit, and lose value sitting there.


I have 1 important question...

Is there any axle stronger than our d60 front axles, but not a full blown giant axle that is wider?
Reason I ask, is that I'm thinking of maybe just doing a dt360 swap.
I really wanted a 466 truck, but I just think it might add so much work over a 360, and a 360 will be fine for what I want out of it.

I'll still use an md 6 sp tranny, but I just don't wish to use a d80 front end, I really want this to be a bullet proof truck at 500-600 hp.
 
dt360 is same weight as factory motors so i don't see the issue with the front end. If you want something bigger f-450 550's had a d60 that had bigger bearings and tubes, brakes. Can't remember what they called it. Super 60 maybe? as far as power handling its the same though and it has that big 8 lug pattern. Chevy 4500 and 5500's had a dana 70 front i think i heard the axles were the same as a 60? but you get a bigger ring and pinion otherwise same weight capacity as a super 60. There was never a dana 80 front end from the factory. Some people have made them using dana 60 knuckles or making there own bigger knuckles so it was a true 80 front. There is also some md drive front axles that i think were made by rockwell. Stay away from the old ih 70 fronts as they are drum break closed knuckle small u joint trash axles. The easiest thing to do would be run f-450 550 axles and wheels as they are readily available and won't change the stance of your truck. The rear is a 110 or 130 dana. The rear might be a bit narrower than a regular dually rear cause of they are all cab and chassis.

Personally i think you are overthinking the axle part. Especially if your doing a dt360. Doing all these one off axles is just going to add expense, tons of work and the axles you have will be fine.
 
BlueOvalDiesel said:
Personally i think you are overthinking the axle part. Especially if your doing a dt360. Doing all these one off axles is just going to add expense, tons of work and the axles you have will be fine.
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Well, with the 466, a big lift was going to be required. I needed bigger wheels, and it didn't make sense to put giant semi wheels with adaptors on the stock axles.

I want this thing to be tough.

I've been lucky with my truck, but I baby the crap out of it. There are some roads I damn near come to a complete stop for rough gravel and pot holes.
I'm sick of babying it, I don't want to drive like a complete arse hole, but I'm sick of worrying about every bump, rock, chunk of wood, etc.
A guy at work has the identical truck, but with 35's, 4" lift, and he's eaten out 5 steering boxes and 3 sets of ball joints.

I just want to be able to drive normal, without worrying about any of that crap. That is the whole point behind this idea...
It isn't california up here where you can throw 44" tires on a stock truck and drive it forever... things here take a severe beating !!!

I had a chev before, the cab actually "banged" enough times, that the floor started denting upward, like sinking over the frame. :doh:

Everything in my build has a reason.

Engine: Simplicity, reliability. Around 600 hp, without worrying. Cheap parts, easy repairs, long lifespan. DT's are also known for good efficiency.

Transmission: Simplicity, Reliability. 5 or 6 sp MD transmissions will bolt right up to the engine, and I have no problems driving a stick. I had one before, now you can barely get them. I miss it.

Transfer case: Not much to say here, but a big one. Nothing fancy.

Axles: Strong. I don't want to deal with issues much. From what I hear so far, MD front 4x4 axles are built to last, and last longer under big trucks, than our diesel pickups d60's and such. I don't want to have to worry about rough roads banging ball joints loose or bending steering, etc.

Wheels: 22.5" commercial floats. They are tough as nails, and last a long time. They should deliver everything I want, but ride quality might be sketchy.


So yes, I could easily put a dt360 in, and leave the rest of the truck stock, but then I'd still be dealing with issues of other things.

I really don't want 40" tires, I would love 35's or 37's, but you can't get commercial floats in that size, that I'm aware of. Mud tires are not an option, been down that road once, and never again. Good for a f150 mud truck or toy truck, thats it, IMHO.

Only the larger axles bolt up to 22.5" rims for those tires, so axles from a f550 or 650 are not going to have the bolt pattern for 22.5"'s.
What I want is a stock width larger axle, with 35" - 37" commercial float tires, but I am unaware of any way that could happen.

This project is stuck in a perpetual circle of wanting stuff, and not being able to find it, or re-thinking things.
My worst fear is buying stuff, and finding out later that a much better, simpler option existed, and I wasted a bunch of time and money.
 
If you had aluminum wheels you could get then turned down to 22"and have your mud tires and a far better tire selection...
 
I think your going to be disapointed with the big floaters. They are designed for semis that weigh much more and last over a 100,000 miles. They grip like crap in the snow and ice with no weight on a semi. They will suck on dry pavement with a light vehichle and be terrible in snow.
Ball joints and tie rods go out on trucks every 100,000 miles? Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Also i think md's have a different bolt pattern then the big ten and im not sure what all rims you can get for them. I would assume you could get a 22.5 not sure on a floater. Then you have wide axles which you don't want and you don't want 1 ton axles or 1.5 ton axles.

Not to be a dick or anything but you have a great idea for a truck. But its going to cost a fortune. Take forever to build and with your wishlist of hard to find parts it might take longer to find them all then it is to build the truck. I doubt this thing gets started much less finished. It might not be a bad idea to get the motor and tranny in the truck and functioning properly then work on axles. I know thats more money. Mainly in driveshafts. But i feel as if you need to start somewhere.
 
BlueOvalDiesel said:
I think your going to be disapointed with the big floaters. They are designed for semis that weigh much more and last over a 100,000 miles. They grip like crap in the snow and ice with no weight on a semi. They will suck on dry pavement with a light vehichle and be terrible in snow.

You can get some pretty grippy floater tires, and I don't expect a great ride from them, I expect tough and long lasting.

Ball joints and tie rods go out on trucks every 100,000 miles? Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Also i think md's have a different bolt pattern then the big ten and im not sure what all rims you can get for them. I would assume you could get a 22.5 not sure on a floater. Then you have wide axles which you don't want and you don't want 1 ton axles or 1.5 ton axles.

There are a few options for the big axles, certainly to run 22.5 rims with floaters. The problem is that they are wide. That might not be a major problem apparently, because they can be shortened.

Not to be a dick or anything but you have a great idea for a truck. But its going to cost a fortune. Take forever to build and with your wishlist of hard to find parts it might take longer to find them all then it is to build the truck. I doubt this thing gets started much less finished. It might not be a bad idea to get the motor and tranny in the truck and functioning properly then work on axles. I know thats more money. Mainly in driveshafts. But i feel as if you need to start somewhere.
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I feel as if I need to start somewhere, I just don't know exactly where.
There are still too many unknows at this point.

The motor and tranny in the truck will be fairly easy.

I think the axles and wheels will be rather tough.

The electronics will also be a challenge.
 
EasternAggie said:
I think he said he didn't want mud tires.
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Definately not mud tires.

I hate mud tires with a passion.
My last set of highway tires lasted over 100,000 km's, factory continentals.
Never rotated once.

I had mud tires on my 7.3 for a bit, didn't make 15,000 km's without vibrating, so I rotated them, and next oil change the steel belting was coming out. Rubber wore totally uneven.

That might have been a worst case scenario, but guys I know are always pissing around with their mud tires getting them to ride right, I don't want none of that. :doh:
 
As time goes on, and more and more research is done, the 466 is looking less likely to happen.
#1 reason is the amount of lift required.
I'm still looking into it further, but I definately decided I don't want to jack the truck up with an insane lift kit.
As far as I can tell, a 6" lift will be needed for the front axle to clear the engine, and that's with barely any room for travel.

Still looking into it, but I don't want a massive un-usable truck either.... dt360 gaining momentum currently.
 
Did you get started with your project yet? I"ll be starting my dt360 swap in a week or two. I was going to use a dt466 also, but they are to large to fit without a body lift and firewall modifications. DT360 will fit with a set of flexalite dual electric fans. Good luck with your project.
 
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