Experience with twisted inputs needed

Blacksdieselhp said:
I think there is more to shaft breakage than pure power. We have lauched our 7000+lb 4wd trucks at 30psi with 1000+ hp and never broke a shaft. Over 450 passes in my 4wd and never even twisted a shaft. Aron had over 200 passes in his red truck and never twisted or broke one. And now even in our pro street truck at 1300+ hp, still have not twisted or broke a shaft. Some say coincidence, but Ive seen shafts break and twist in other brands of trannies at moderate hp levels in street trucks. The main difference is shift quality. I wish more of the big tranny shops out there spent more time testing this theory.
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I agree, seen too many of Daves transmissions perform flawlessly. I would pretty much say he is the master!
 
Uh correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Aron's truck PCS controlled?
 
It was at one point. It had a goerend manual vb in the beginning. It broke a billet intermediate with the PCs setup.
 
One of the few inputs we have hurt since going to a commercial powertrain transmission was done locked in OD...
 
dvst8r said:
I wouldn't bother with a larger input shaft. TCS Aermet input is the way to go.

With that being said it may run for a long time with that amount of twist in it, and never give you any trouble.
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I spoke with Paul today at TCS, very knowledgeable guy and put up with my stupid questions. I have gone through 3 this year (twisting not breaking) but not sure what shaft we had. Anyway he gave specs on when they twist (torque), how far they can twist, and when to replace. He also went over the three different shafts and their material and ratings. Also some tips on how to make them live. We will be trying the Aermet shafts asap.
 
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The Aermet Shaft is also relatively new so its hard to just be 100% that its the end all of billet inputs, although it does sound promising. The best thing about using a standard size is the convenience of not needing a machined stator support or big hub and seal in the converter. Looking at the shafts in person, I still see the Oversized input take more abuse then the Aermet shaft.

Here is a picture of an Opie Phat shaft on the left, an Aermet Shaft in the middle and a standard TCS input on the right. TCS told me the only difference in the Aermet shaft over the standard Billet shaft was the cryogenic treatment it goes through.

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I agree that the opie fat shaft will hold more, but I never had a tranny/converter live more than a few passes using one of them and the recommended tranny builder. I don't know if it was the tranny/converter/ or shaft (never twisted) so not trying to burn anyone up here. I went back to the standard size shaft/Suncoast converter/Calvins auto trans and there have been no tranny/converter issues so far.
 
We were in the same boat with converters and fat shafts, couldn't even get a pass out of a converter.
 
I have yet to have a issue with the phat shaft, but I know you can't build a 4 disc converter with the large hub, just this year Matt Kauffmans mega cab has put 50-75 passes on his stock stall DPC triple disc converter and phat shaft trans running 11.6@116 and 8060lbs.

Once we can get an oversized hub in a competition 4 disc converter we'll have the ultimate combo.
 
Runninlean;1884704 This is not what Paul told me. So not sure what to believe.[/quote said:
Ditto, I'll take Paul's explaination but I'm surely no metallurgist.
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Comparing them side by side they are identical in casting, only difference is in the color as you can see in the picture. I talked to Steve and he may have been misinformed. I just put one in a 900+HP build and time will tell how it holds up. To me, seeing Torrey's truck run 9.50's with a 6700 lb. CR is pretty solid evidence that they're on to something.
 
i have one of the new TCS shafts.....they are smaller than the factory shaft and have the fancy springy steel that bends and go's back and not breaks....i beat the snot out of it and was breaking outputs at will and barley wore the black coating off the splines of the shaft
 
LAmiller said:
I have yet to have a issue with the phat shaft, but I know you can't build a 4 disc converter with the large hub, just this year Matt Kauffmans mega cab has put 50-75 passes on his stock stall DPC triple disc converter and phat shaft trans running 11.6@116 and 8060lbs.

Once we can get an oversized hub in a competition 4 disc converter we'll have the ultimate combo.
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We never had an issue with the phat shaft either, other then 3 disc converters literally would not lockup and we would burn through them in a single pass. We still have a phat shaft that looks like new sitting on the shelf. If Phil does manage to build a 4 disc large hub, that still seems like the ultimate combo as you said.

Now that we have twisted (didn't break it and then went sled pulling on it) that TCS aermet shaft they have mentioned the possibility of building a large version of it.

We are going to be beating on it again this weekend in Medicine Hat, at Southern Alberta's fastest street car shoot out. Should be a good time, they even have a cruise prior to starting eliminations, the pairings are drawn out of a hat.
 
LAmiller said:
What stall we're you running in the triples that didn't hold?
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We tried from ~1500-2200rpm, as Phil can attest we went through a lot of converters this year trying to figure this out, that 4 disc is an animal. We were very skeptical of going back to a small shaft, as previous 300m small shafts were broken at will, but it was the only way to move forward. Unfortunately being limited to SSR turning and very limited rpm range, there is only so loose we can go. One way or another we are ditching the SSR over this winter.

In my mind an aermet phat shaft, into a Phil Taylor 4 disc, would be NEARLY untouchable.
 
Interesting, your also making 500HP more then most full weight trucks but we've got a few billet rod CR builds in progress that will be making big HP with the Phat shaft setup that will definitely put it to the ultimate test.

Lavon
 
LAmiller said:
Interesting, your also making 500HP more then most full weight trucks but we've got a few billet rod CR builds in progress that will be making big HP with the Phat shaft setup that will definitely put it to the ultimate test.

Lavon
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If you get something figured out we are all ears, as we have a fair bit invested in the big hub converters.

We have a couple other things we are going to try this off season, but at this point I'm not going to say what they are. Other then the truck is going to Weight watchers and we are going to shave it right down to the 6000lbs min weight for SS. That alone should make a significant difference in converter life.
 
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