Looking at new compound setups

I

inline6359

Microwaving cats since 01
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Aug 28, 2006
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My auroras are crapping the bed, never got to check my drive pressurfe but i suspect thats where my problem lies. My 2k is pushing oil past the seals and that explains my oil consumption problem.

I WILL be running an external gate to help with drive pressure this time.

S300/S400 has been what i was really looking at but have been trying to find other options. Cant seem to find a vgt to work with but have not had any luck. Anybody know of any other sick setups out there.

:bang
 
Here is what i am coming up with.

My truck needs 415 cfm of air, this is achieved by:

Max rpm x eng cu. in./1728 x 2
4000 x 359 / 1728 x 2
1436000 / 3456
=415.5 cfm

Absloute temperature is 585 deg. Rankin.
125 intake temp + 460
=585 Rankin

Absloute preessure is 84.7 Psia
70 psig + 14.7
=84.7 psia

n(lbs/min) is 162.6 lb/min
84.7 psia x 415.5 cfm x 29 / 10.73 x 585
1020592.65 / 6277.05
162.6 lb.min

lb/min actual is 138 lb/min
162.6 lb/min x .85
133 lb/min actual


Now some things just dont add up to me but this is like trying to speak sign language. At 133lb/min i need a really REALLY big turbo. May not have helped i got this off of a honda site but im struggeling with this.

What would reaslly helps is if i knew how they matched up the turbos. Am i looking for my small turbo to be slightly off the map, and the large one to be slightly under? .....................:bang
 
realalisticly not much more then 700 if that, other projects require my attention.

I have found several setups of s400's from 72mm - 80mm. Cannot seem to find a s300.

and turbo maps seem non existant.
 
Is ATS willing to upgrade your system for one of their new higher hp versions of twins or are you just wanting to ditch ATS?
 
I'd imagine a 64/big brother or 64/400 combo should do quite well.
 
97crewcab said:
Is ATS willing to upgrade your system for one of their new higher hp versions of twins or are you just wanting to ditch ATS?
Click to expand...


I want to ditch ats.

Yes they are more then happy to upgrade me to a 3k over my 5k kit at almost 1400 (IIRC) for just the turbo. That does not include the piping an other changes i have to make. Just to get my turbos rebuilt will run almost 1100.
 
Ouch!
Both chargers need rebuilt in your system? I figured they could upgrade for less than that if you aren't happy with the system. I would think that the 5k would still end up limiting you in that combo even with the 3k.

Good luck.
 
I have been looking for a reason to step up.

I dont think the 5k needs rebuilt, infact im sure, but i wanted prices anyway.
 
inline6359 said:
Here is what i am coming up with.

My truck needs 415 cfm of air, this is achieved by:

Max rpm x eng cu. in./1728 x 2
4000 x 359 / 1728 x 2
1436000 / 3456
=415.5 cfm

Absloute temperature is 585 deg. Rankin.
125 intake temp + 460
=585 Rankin

Absloute preessure is 84.7 Psia
70 psig + 14.7
=84.7 psia

n(lbs/min) is 162.6 lb/min
84.7 psia x 415.5 cfm x 29 / 10.73 x 585
1020592.65 / 6277.05
162.6 lb.min

lb/min actual is 138 lb/min
162.6 lb/min x .85
133 lb/min actual


Now some things just dont add up to me but this is like trying to speak sign language. At 133lb/min i need a really REALLY big turbo. May not have helped i got this off of a honda site but im struggeling with this.

What would reaslly helps is if i knew how they matched up the turbos. Am i looking for my small turbo to be slightly off the map, and the large one to be slightly under? .....................:bang
Click to expand...

You are pretty close. My spread sheet pukes the same but @ 75 psi boost depending on your target AFR. To get these numbers you need to be running at 75% CE otherwise boost or IE will need to be raised.

Assumed Parameters
Displacement 5.9 L
HP Engine 805
HP Wheels 700
BSFC 0.38
AFR 26
CE 75 %
IE 76 %
VE 85 %
Air Filter D/P 0.00 psid
IC D/P 0.00 psid
Ambient Temp 70 F
Ambient Press 29.9 Inch Hg
RPM 4000
Boost 75 psi
Turbine Inlet Temp 1600 F

Air Flow
Comp Outlet Temp 548 F
IC Outlet Temp 185 F
Density Ratio 5.0
Pressure Ratio 6.1
Air Flow 1778 CFM
Air Flow 133.1 Lb/Min
Air Density 1.1988 kg/m^3
Compressor Hp 776

Air Fuel Ratio
Fuel Flow 5.1 Lb/Min

Required Air Flow
Air Flow 1771 CFM
Air Flow 132.6 Lb/Min
Boost 75 psi

Corrected Exhaust Flow
Corrected Exhaust Flow 27.1 Lb/min

Jim
 
Last edited:
I'd run a 62/71/13 and a 74mm S400 if you know your going to stop at 700hp. If you see more in the future then run a 80mm S400 instead of the 74mm. The 80mm's are quieter and don't spool much slower yet they will make another 100-150hp.
 
Does anybody know which flange i have on my ats manifold? Im trying to find an spacer/adapter so i can place an external wastegate. As far as i know is the standard manifold not the wide flange.
 
inline6359 said:
Does anybody know which flange i have on my ats manifold? Im trying to find an spacer/adapter so i can place an external wastegate. As far as i know is the standard manifold not the wide flange.
Click to expand...

Standard is a T3 flange and the big foot is a T4.

Jim
 
ok so for two years I been lookin for someoen who had the calculations you have presented here - but without the "english " even still I cant understand them.

Will one of you kind gentlemen walk me through the calculations you presented here so I can do my own, then walk myslef forward and back to get what i need in terms of psi, references, sizing, etc etc

this could become one of the best threads ever presented on a forum from what I have seen and read in my humble opinion
thanx
Ken
 
I took another look at this. Consider 22 AFR, 65 CE and TIP = Boost. The number for corrected gas flow should also be accurate now assuming EGT 1600F. This also drops you into the 112 lb/min range @ 61 psi boost.

I re-did the spread sheet some, might be easier to understand.

Assumed Parameters
Displacement 5.9 L
HP Engine 805
HP Wheels 700
BSFC 0.38
AFR 22
CE 65 %
IE 76 %
VE 85 %
Air Filter D/P 0.00 psid
IC D/P 0.00 psid
Ambient Temp 70 F
Ambient Press 29.9 Inch Hg
RPM 4000
Boost 61 psi
Turbine Inlet Temp 1600 F
Turbine Inlet Press 61 psi

Air Fuel Ratio - Required Values
Fuel Flow 305.9 Lb/Hr
Fuel Flow 5.1 Lb/Min
Air Flow 1498 CFM
Air Flow 112.2 Lb/Min
IC Outlet Temp 187 F
Boost 61 psi

Air Flow - Calculated Values
Comp Outlet Temp 557 F
IC Outlet Temp 187 F
Density Ratio 4.2
Pressure Ratio 5.2
Air Flow 1495 CFM
Air Flow 111.9 Lb/Min
Air Density 1.1988 kg/m^3
Compressor Hp 613

Exhaust Flow - Calculated Values
Corrected Exhaust Flow 37.9 Lb/min

Jim
 
seeker1056 said:
ok so for two years I been lookin for someoen who had the calculations you have presented here - but without the "english " even still I cant understand them.

Will one of you kind gentlemen walk me through the calculations you presented here so I can do my own, then walk myslef forward and back to get what i need in terms of psi, references, sizing, etc etc

this could become one of the best threads ever presented on a forum from what I have seen and read in my humble opinion
thanx
Ken
Click to expand...

I did the same thing two years ago myself. I found most of the information from the internet. I started building a spreadsheet and a friend of mine who is a PE and a math whiz did 90% of the math for me, of which I can't understand 50% of.

Jim
 
FUH - REAKIN - GREEK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Thanx for the base calcs

Few if any here understand all the short forms or assumed knowledge you are using here

Puh leee zze eee to spaekade - eng - leesh

thnax

Ken
 
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