Porting the new Hamilton 12v head.

stock600 said:
Dont lump sum all my finding with the Glide, th350, and th400 together, the 400 flat works great. Are there many other trans brakes out there in the sport, any running 36" slicks, how many with 1.16 60's all day long....I made 500 passes coming off the brake in 2010 alone with the 400. All my convertor issues Again stemmed from trying to make it work with a glide where I was limited to way to small of a convertor. Think about it though, None of this information would even be known here if I had not shared my hard times and info about it, so chalk it up to good free information like it or hate it. But it's not just bumpin' my gums on this end, or speaking wildly about a subject I have no real first hand knowledge with. I put the time, money, and effort in.
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I've got a few questions pertaining to this topic.

stock600- how were you limited to way to small of a converter with the glide? I'm just curious. A turbo spline input for a glide is like $135
TCI Auto 749200 - TCI Hardened Input Shafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

then you can run whatever turbo spline torque converter you want. You can get converters as loose or tight as you want. If you step out and put a "can" on the front of the transmission you have room for converters MUCH larger than anything that will fit inside a stock bellhousing, money permitting.

Madmike- not being sarcastic. I was curious because torqueflights are not considered good transmissions in performance applications. It is very common to swap a turbo 400 or pg into a chrysler application if it makes any power. Obviously the 47/48's have been r and d'd to death due to the powerful cummins trucks, but my thought is that the platform is kinda lame, and the diesel industry has worked on it until it lives. More power to them, just wondering if their is a better option.

Signature600- I have not put any in a diesel- point well taken. I'm new to the diesel performance world. But I have used them in powerful combinations and had good luck, both with longevity and low slip- the radical vast majority of them were non lock up and were less than 10%. Some as low as 3 or 4%- but those were in applications that revved up much more than a diesel, granted.

RonA- I'm not trying to be cheap at all. I just want what is the best. I know that if someone wants to run faster than the other guys, they have to do different things. I feel like that's why the vast majority of the diesel trucks performance is lackluster compared to the power that the impressive powerplants produce. Everyone is doing what everyone ELSE is doing. Your argument of:
"Nothing to argue here. Light car(under 4k) T400 can be made to work. Heavy vehicle, probably not."
Is the perfect example. So that's it? The issue is over for you? Nothing to argue? I'm honestly not trying to start an argument with you, just want people to be open minded to new ideas. I know they use powerglides and TH 400's in monster trucks. They are heavy and have blown hemi's (a bunch of them do anyway)- which are crysler products. They buy blocks with GM bolt patterns on the back so that they can use powerglide/ TH 400's. Why don't they just use 48's if that is the best tranny setup? No doubt that the 48's are killer in their current state of full billet/ custom aftermarket everything, for a street truck. But for a racing application, I doubt it is the best.
 
It all goes back to RPM, IMHO...diesel have so much torque, at so little RPM, it takes a "different" converter to work.

Chris
 
Signature600 said:
It all goes back to RPM, IMHO...diesel have so much torque, at so little RPM, it takes a "different" converter to work.

Chris
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I agree. It is all about rpm. It's not an opinion chris, it's a fact. I also disagree. I think the converters that are "working" are not "working" very well. They function correctly, but do not work very well.
 
Billy, some good points made for sure, especially on the monster truck. Thing is though aren't those trucks geared to pretty much top out around 70-80mph at a final transmission ratio of 1 to 1? Our gearing is similar in that we are geared to top out near the same mph at 1 to 1 (not considering OD) but at 3000-3500ish rpm vs 8500ish (guessing) for the monster truck. Point: even though heavy, the monster trucks have a huge gearing advantage vs. the common diesel pick up truck setup hence presenting less overall load to the converter making efficiency in fluid coupling easier obtained. Just a thought. Further, not really sure how important efficiency is in a monster truck converter other than to keep heat at bay.

I am far from certain but I think rpm is the biggest issue with why you don't see too many fluid coupling options for these big heavy trucks. It would certainly seem there would be more lock up options in the gas motor world given the length of time people have been drag racing gas motor combinations with th400 style transmissions if there was a large gain to be had by going lock up. With diesels not being able to generate the same rpm just not sure current converter technology is there to run well at heavy weights and limited rpm.

Again this is all just my guess from very limited experience.
 
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RonA said:
Nothing to argue here. Light car(under 4k) T400 can be made to work. Heavy vehicle, probably not.
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Exactly. Put one in a 6800lb + truck and see how strong they are behind a 12v. Been there blew them up. I know Ryan's Alter worked great, but how much was invested in the TH400 all together without an over drive? I'm not saying they're junk, it's just a toss up which one you choose to dump the money in. Plus I'm sure his car was 800lbs or more lighter than my car. Will that make much of a difference? With my luck, hell yeah! LOL I have $5k altogether in my 47rh and have gotten 2 seasons out of it. Do I have a trans brake? No and IDK if I want one in this car. LOL We'll see how it is now.....................:kick:
 
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DieselWrencher said:
Exactly. Put one in a 6800lb + truck and see how strong they are behind a 12v. Been there blew them up. I know Ryan's Alter worked great, but how much was invested in the TH400 all together without an over drive? I'm not saying they're junk, it's just a toss up which one you choose to dump the money in. Plus I'm sure his car was 800lbs or more lighter than my car. Will that make much of a difference? With my luck, hell yeah! LOL I have $5k altogether in my 47rh and have gotten 2 seasons out of it. Do I have a trans brake? No and IDK if I want one in this car. LOL We'll see how it is now.....................:kick:
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Impossible, i thought a built 47/48 was $10k!?!?! :confused:
 
DieselWrencher said:
Now granted, I don't have a billet out put shaft, but from everything I hear and the big boys that were running them, it'll be a while before I break that.
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I was told the same thing (and my truck weighs a bit more than your Vette)...I asked about getting one 'just in case' I was told they are not even made. Granted this was a few years ago.
 
DieselWrencher said:
Now granted, I don't have a billet out put shaft, but from everything I hear and the big boys that were running them, it'll be a while before I break that.
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what's your race weight? Michael Watkins got to where he was getting 1-2 passes out of them before they'd start spiral cracking.

He stepped up to Suncoast's big output setup. It's a beast!!! uses a 4wd tail housing and has a billet plate that bolts to it housing a bushing and seal. T400 spline IIRC.

I think he's been through two intermediate shafts since then!!! :bang

but it just got a billet intermediate

he went pretty quick on the stocker outputs, but once it got to the point where it broke one, it started ****ting them left and right
 
rgsmith70 said:
yes they do, monkey see monkey do guy!! and here is the kicker, u don't have to spend 10.000 dollars to do it! lol 2000 hp they build these for! dp ur research... the 47r and re r junk comparitively, again keep in mind what u have to spend to make those 47's hold up, u might have all the money in the world, but most of us don't! for the trucks, i might stay with the 47 cause of mod i wiould have to do to make the chevy work.. mabe... but in a car, without question, the 400... call the tranny guys and gearvendor, watch what they say...lol good luck curious george.
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This? I have to admit its funny
 
:Cheer::cheer: ....so it looks like the 400's aren't so bad after all...:hehe: for those haters. thanks guys for clearing it up for the; monkey see monkey do, and magazine as a bible guys!! they use those 400, actually th475 which have straight cut gears, in motor homes, lots of weight there. so they have to have a lil ass in them, wright? well any way, i'll gether done and post back, as far as the car goes, dyno, track, etc. need about a month or so to finish up.
 
rgsmith70 said:
:Cheer::cheer: ....so it looks like the 400's aren't so bad after all...:hehe: for those haters. thanks guys for clearing it up for the; monkey see monkey do, and magazine as a bible guys!! they use those 400, actually th475 which have straight cut gears, in motor homes, lots of weight there. so they have to have a lil ass in them, wright? well any way, i'll gether done and post back, as far as the car goes, dyno, track, etc. need about a month or so to finish up.
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LOL Most of us have been down the path of trying a new concept. If you want to learn what doesn't work by doing it, no one around here will stop you (but we may point and laugh).

Who's building your 400? The last time I talked with Hughes, Rossler, etc, they wanted $10-12k for a lockup trans that would hold up to my weight/torque combo. It's really close to what you seem to be building.
 
a lock up similar to a 47 or 48? tell "george" there is the 10k i was talikin about. this is not goin in a truck, car---3800lbs--- there are pleny of guys in the gasser world runnig super chargers on 540's and larger makin 1500hp and 1500 or better tqe! on 400 turbos. trans breakin, puttin these cars on the bumpers past the 60 ft. shiftin at 7000 rpm. that is respectable, so many people told me many times somethin wouldn't work....it did! if we all listen to everyone all the time without question, we would all b germans and there would b no more jews! get the hint!! just because u say it, doesn't make it true ( who ever, no one in particular) i have over 20 years in this game, i am comfortable enough in this subject to say 400 is, no prob... time will tell.
 
Hurry up, get it done, and come race. We need more cars and trucks on the track! So where the heck can those moistures be found? LMAO!
 
So I love how this thread pertaining to Ron's interest in porting a Hamilton Diesel head has become all about this guy ^ and what transmission he wants...:bang
 
lol... the grey one doin wheelies, he is on a 400i think..let u know...

i was porting a head thats how it started, than a hater got on bashing 400 in a 3800lb car.. it did get away from the subject though didn't it!..lol
 
derail.jpg




That would never happen on Comp D!:shake:
 
rgsmith70 said:
:Cheer::cheer: ....so it looks like the 400's aren't so bad after all...:hehe: for those haters. thanks guys for clearing it up for the; monkey see monkey do, and magazine as a bible guys!! they use those 400, actually th475 which have straight cut gears, in motor homes, lots of weight there. so they have to have a lil ass in them, wright? well any way, i'll gether done and post back, as far as the car goes, dyno, track, etc. need about a month or so to finish up.
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Your project sounds interesting, why don't you do a build thread
 
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