Pure hydrogen injection

Well there is a company already doing it but they have a LPG/hydrogen mix. I dont think it is for an all out power application like i want to see though. From what i read they introduce hydrogen to the intake, normaly this is where it gets dangerous. That is because once the fuel or hydrogen reaches the temperature at which auto ignition occurs it can burn at any time. So a hot intercooler or plumbing may do that. Also it may combust before the cylinder hits top dead center which makes the whole idea useless.

BUT..This company injects vaporized LPG into the intake to augment the diesel injection.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Fuel_Efficiency_Hydrogen_Injection

I do not know if this would work with a pressurized system like n20 but it may be a start.
 
Yeah thats what I was thinkin.. Also I'm going to talk to the Hydrogen Guys today but the Turbine Just triped at the powerplant and the Diesels started so people from Plant Engineering are going ape sh!t.

I'll report back....

Rick, those places are for that Browns Gas stuff. they use water to get the hydrogen. Its not quite the same as pure H injection.
 
Last edited:
I could see someone explaining to homeland security why you needed pure hydrogen. "No honestly I am going to inject it into my diesel truck to make it go faster.":doh:
 
What they dont know wont hurt them, and last time i checked we had a legit hookup. So whats the issue again?
 
Spectre32 said:
Is it actual Hydrogen or are u "making" it while in the car. You cannot make chemicaly pure Hydrogen via electrolysis unles you have some of the best metals on earth in your system and alot of power.
Click to expand...

no, not making the chemically pure stuff, just what is made by regular electrolosis. I did find out out that stainless rods work better than platinum though..... at least in my case
 
I'm pretty interested in burning some hydrogen, but there are some problems.

On-truck hydrogen production: electrolyzers operate at sub-100% effeciency meaning that you take more electric energy to split the water than you get from burning the hydrogen/oxygen.

The hope is that the extra hydrogen and oxygen act in synergy with the normal combustion and increase efficiency.

Also Hydrogen safety is somewhat skewed, there is a lot of misinformation about the Hindenburg. For example most of the people who died, died because they jumped:
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/investigations/q0277.shtml

Overall I think that it is VERY interesting- we've put our first hydrogen generator on a Geo, and the guy driving it timed a 1 sec increase in his 0-60 time.

It is very hard to get good information on the web, and a lot of scams, so if anyone wants to share info pm me!
 
Form what i understand didnt the coating on the hindenburg help combustion?

The system we would look into doing would already have a bottle of hydrogen in it. We dont want the hassle of making it. We just want instant gratification.

In theory the system would have some traits from both nitrous and water meth. Electronic selinoids controling the release. But at the same time we want to increase the percentage at will. Either like a stage 3 water meth with an electronic controler, or manualy.

But before we could do that we need to figure out a basline for safe injection at what rpm and such. We also need to figure out how to keep the hydrogen as cool as possible so it achieves auto ignition inside the combustion chamber not between the injection point and intake valve.
 
inline6359 said:
Form what i understand didnt the coating on the hindenburg help combustion?

The system we would look into doing would already have a bottle of hydrogen in it. We dont want the hassle of making it. We just want instant gratification.

In theory the system would have some traits from both nitrous and water meth. Electronic selinoids controling the release. But at the same time we want to increase the percentage at will. Either like a stage 3 water meth with an electronic controler, or manualy.

But before we could do that we need to figure out a basline for safe injection at what rpm and such. We also need to figure out how to keep the hydrogen as cool as possible so it achieves auto ignition inside the combustion chamber not between the injection point and intake valve.
Click to expand...

You know where I stand. I'll get you more info as we make it available.

Its a long road you guys are looking into, but very possible.
 
Sounds good! Since an engine can run on hydrogen alone which is more desirable? A fuel rich, or lean enviroment. A lean enviroment may mean that the diesel combustion cycle and combustion point may be less of a factor. Just thinking out loud.
 
inline6359 said:
Sounds good! Since an engine can run on hydrogen alone which is more desirable? A fuel rich, or lean enviroment. A lean enviroment may mean that the diesel combustion cycle and combustion point may be less of a factor. Just thinking out loud.
Click to expand...

Studies have shown that in a lean enviroment (5% H2 to all other octane burning fuels) in a turbulant burning chamber (our engines) it will burn faster than of just normal conditions. They also show that by doubling the amount of H2 to this enviroment does not double the burn accelerant. Once you get too much, it doesn't matter. However, the advance between these two set point is where the timing of a vehicle is going to come into play. Though only a 5% H2 level, the rate of burn is almost going to be too much for an engine if there is alot of timing advance in an engine. Unlike propane and nitrous, burn rates are not prolonged but does have the advantage of producing water in which would help cool the engine. It will help start injnite the burn, but as far as helping burn the rest of the fuel, that would be hard to say. Nitrous and Propane have a higher burn temp which helps complete the burn of the diesel fuel in the combustion chamber. Another problem is that even in a turbulant enviroment, H2 disperses rapidly and quickly, thus causing the H2 to settle at the upper part of the combustion chamber and also might cause damage to the face of the piston. Also H2 has a relatively fast burn rate but low temp, this could cause wear problems on the top of the piston. More information to come.
 
Sounds like instead on relying on the intake charge to deliver the hydrogen a set of nozzles directly in the head would yield optimum results. Injected at the same time as the diesel. That woulde eliminate piston wear, premature ignition, and timing advancement.
 
inline6359 said:
Sounds good! Since an engine can run on hydrogen alone which is more desirable? A fuel rich, or lean enviroment. A lean enviroment may mean that the diesel combustion cycle and combustion point may be less of a factor. Just thinking out loud.
Click to expand...

I'd say it depends on how cheap you can get your Hydrogen!

I read an article on this guy who has made a lot of toys with hydrogen and other alternative fueling setups: Fast Company Article

The article has some interesting stuff in it. I also emailed him, and talked to him a little on the phone- according to him, there isn't a real risk of detonating the Hydrogen in the intake.

Hydrogen has a very high autoignition point: 1085deg F and it is rated at 130+ Octane. It should be safe, as long as there isn't another ignition source- spark/open flame to ignite it.

So far I think BMW has the 100% Hydrogen powered speed record at something like 200-220 mph?
 
You would still need to make sure it is not going to preignite in the cylinder if you are injecting in the intake. A system to inject in the cylinder would not be cost effective. And, on a vehicle whose throttle is controlled by fuel metering, introducing abundant fuel will cause.......fun!LOL
 
TheBigNasty said:
You would still need to make sure it is not going to preignite in the cylinder if you are injecting in the intake. A system to inject in the cylinder would not be cost effective. And, on a vehicle whose throttle is controlled by fuel metering, introducing abundant fuel will cause.......fun!LOL
Click to expand...

Essentially thats what I was trying to say... I'll stop using big words, it makes me feel like I'm smart and I know I'm not anyways....:bang
 
Yeah ditto on the Intake thing. I was reading a bunch from the national hydrogen council and came upon all of the stuff that was just said(in-relation to the chemical properties of Hydrogen). The next real step is to find someone to buy the gas off of, and see if its even resonable to do so....


There is a range to which hydrogen is useable, once you get out of it your screwed and adding more will not help(in terms of combustion accerleation). I think form 15%-54% Hydrogen to air is the danger region for an explosion, while 5%-75%(negating the whole 15%- 54% region) is safe.

Also there are material properties that get affected when using hydrogen. I'm by no means an MSE guy but from what i was reading there can be induced failure because of some phenonoma with detonating hydrogen. Its kinda like when you have Steam and water in a pipe(2-phases), you get Flow Accelerated Corrosion.
 
Last edited:
I like this thread...

I recently starting building a hydrogen generator (browns gas type) using electrolisys for mileage gains, however have been very interested in using pure H2 right from the bottle as well. I also read about the guy putting Duramax's in Hummers and how he was using hydrogen injection. In one of the pictures you can see a highpressure tank in the bed. I was very curious how he regulated the injection of it...

Anyways, a quick call to a bottled gas company gave me this:

Bottle lease is $30 per year or $75 for 5 years. Bottle size is a 'K' which is like a welding bottle 5' tall. 100% hyrogen, 1096 cu ft, between 2000 and 3000 psi. Refills cost $51.

I don't know how long this would last but I'm going to guess that the cost isn't going to be an issue. $80 will only get you 22.5 gallons of fuel in these parts...
 
I know a guy who dumped raw diesel into the intake track to improve power. Ran like a raped ape for about a minute, then the powerstroke went boom!
 
inline6359 said:
Form what i understand didnt the coating on the hindenburg help combustion?
Click to expand...
They tested that theory on Mythbusters, I believe they determined it was the coating of the fabric on the blimp that contributed more to the enormous fire than the Hydrogen by itself, but its been awhile since I watched it....

Thats all I can contribute, the rest of this thread is Greek...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top