Pushing through the brakes

try an extra set of calipers on the rear, thats all we did

BINGO.......

When you can't keep the car or truck from pushing thru....

The problem is you are turning the rear wheels and shoving the locked front tires forward...

So as bubba did we have done on my car, and many many super stock cars have dual calipers on the rear....
 
I'm going to build a pinion brake for the 1/2 ton...seems a lot simpler to me than trying to mount a second set of calipers on the rear, and braking ahead of the ring and pinion should take a LOT less braking effort.

Chris


OK let me explain why this is not simpler and a TERRIBLY BAD..... NOT thought out issue....

When we lose 10lbs from the driveline we lose a tenth in the 1/4

This is why we go to AL and CF shafts or run lightened Stl shafts when rules do not permit AL or CF....

Adding a pinion brake..... is like leaving the line with the chute dragging behind the car.....
Why would you add more weight to a AREA that is needed to get everything moving....

Rather then add a bracket and caliper to a ALREADY there rotor....


You want to go faster...........
 
OK let me explain why this is not simpler and a TERRIBLY BAD..... NOT thought out issue....

When we lose 10lbs from the driveline we lose a tenth in the 1/4

This is why we go to AL and CF shafts or run lightened Stl shafts when rules do not permit AL or CF....

Adding a pinion brake..... is like leaving the line with the chute dragging behind the car.....
Why would you add more weight to a AREA that is needed to get everything moving....

Rather then add a bracket and caliper to a ALREADY there rotor....


You want to go faster...........


On what vehicle?

If you can GUARANTEE my diesel 1/2 ton will pick up a tenth in the 1/4 from losing 10lbs on the driveline, I might not build a pinion brake.


But from talking to a few of the racers that had to add a second set of calipers on the rear end of their diesels, I'm going pinion brake. The gearing advantage will help immensely with holding it back at the line, and it will be stupid simple to do.
BTW, one of these happens to be a current record holding diesel truck...the others, are damn close to taking that away.

Chris
 
The one from hawaii ? It's not stupid simple... For a off-road truck a pinion brake is stupid simple...
You think adding a companion flange, disc brake rotor and then the new flange...is only going to be 10 lbs of weight.... and attaching that to the housing so the caliper holds the rotor is stupid simple or simple stupid...
Then balancing it...

When all you need to do is add a bracket to the forward position of the rotor on the rear and no balancing anything or screwing with the preload on the pinion... ok

The one with the lighter driveline will be faster... see every 10 lbs of driveline weight is like taking a couple hundred out of the bed...

You never went from stl wheels to Al wheels, never seen what lighter tires do...how about lighter axles, carriers, gears, spools, driveshafts......nothing changed because your driveline resides in a 1/2 ton truck....
 
OK let me explain why this is not simpler and a TERRIBLY BAD..... NOT thought out issue....

When we lose 10lbs from the driveline we lose a tenth in the 1/4

This is why we go to AL and CF shafts or run lightened Stl shafts when rules do not permit AL or CF....

Adding a pinion brake..... is like leaving the line with the chute dragging behind the car.....
Why would you add more weight to a AREA that is needed to get everything moving....

Rather then add a bracket and caliper to a ALREADY there rotor....


You want to go faster...........
Ah. Boost has something to do with this equation... you figure it out.
 
The one from hawaii ? It's not stupid simple... For a off-road truck a pinion brake is stupid simple...
You think adding a companion flange, disc brake rotor and then the new flange...is only going to be 10 lbs of weight.... and attaching that to the housing so the caliper holds the rotor is stupid simple or simple stupid...
Then balancing it...

When all you need to do is add a bracket to the forward position of the rotor on the rear and no balancing anything or screwing with the preload on the pinion... ok

The one with the lighter driveline will be faster... see every 10 lbs of driveline weight is like taking a couple hundred out of the bed...

You never went from stl wheels to Al wheels, never seen what lighter tires do...how about lighter axles, carriers, gears, spools, driveshafts......nothing changed because your driveline resides in a 1/2 ton truck....

Considering this is all a brand new build, nope, never changed a thing yet.

Who knows, maybe when we weld on my caliper brakets, we might just go ahead and weld on 4...have to do it anyway. But from conversations with other diesel racers, the pinion brake just works better.

Do you race diesels?
Chris
 
Not professionally... But i don't use trans brakes, so im used to the added braking needed.

Here is the problem many make when going to a pinion brake....

It's weight you don't want to add in a area that is very affected by weight, and you aren't running a 1900lb rail where you can afford to add anything...especially in the driveline...

A BIG mistake everyone makes.........

There is no heat in the brakes when you go to the line...
Brakes are notorious for not working 100% when dead cold....

So when warming the rear on the stands.....slow it down a few times to get heat into the brakes and you'll be surprised at how much better they grab...

The other issue is, people using road race type pads and rotors on a drag vehicle... You don't make the repeated heat and stopping road cars do.....

Using brakes that are designed to work at temps you MIGHT see as you lift off the brake pedal after the run..... Don't hold anything back when they rolled off the trailer and sat around cold for an hour.. Those brakes need HEAT....lots of heat.... so buying ceramic impregnated metal pads is a bad idea....unless you are running the rear and warming the fluid (another issue that robs hp) and warming the pads real good and dropping the truck 2 minutes before you need to be in the lanes....


.
 
Just use OEM pads - the NAO compounds used these days provide the best combination of cold bite & high-temp performance... especially for a truck.
 
Looser convertor makes spool up tons easier but....... Im a tight convertor and good brakes guy myself. Dual calipers is the way to go, I have 18 bleeders to jack with every time I go through my brakes, but it's night and day differance.
 
Martin Saine makes some trick converters that lock up, after you leave...

Might wanna ask him about it.....not sure which trans he makes them for other then Mopars since that is what i run....
The best of both worlds though... get to leave and then it's like having a clutch...
 
Dal, there are obviously many routes to take here on holding the truck from pushing thru the brakes. I would include input on one thing for you whether or not you take it or leave it:

You don't want the truck using the rear brakes to stage in order to not push thru. Why? When your sitting there at the line holding the brake to launch, the entire chassis of your truck has a load on it, a twisting load, from your flywheel, thru the driveshaft, the axles, and an overall incorrect stance for launch. Where as a transbrake type set up is loading only the "transmission". The pinion brake is absolutely ideal in my opinion as well as "bang for your buck" since I know you have a budget to work on like everyone does. Then later if you throw in a looser converter, try that.

Now on the converter choices:
I dont know what you use for data logging or if you use anything at all. Data logging of any kind is the only way to keep moving forward. When selecting the right converter, what do you shoot for?: spoolablilty? acceleration? combination of both? Now sure you can throw in a looser converter to spool better and hold the truck, but if the converter "flat lines" down the track, it's too loose. I dont know your set up you have now but there may or may not be room for looser. By flat lining I mean, laying on the converter. When you lay on the converter and review your logged data, the drive shaft ramp should closely follow the engine rpm ramp, if it quits accelerating and rpms are still high, converter is too loose.

I'm not just incredibly familiar with the Ford tranny set ups but here is something you might take some time to research that might work. In order to run a tight converter and still spool it, there is a little something called a proc device. How it works is by the push of a button (usually transbrake) it pulls fluid from the converter to make it spool or rev faster, at the release of the button, it pushes the fluid back into the converter leaving it the tight, accelerating converter you want. As far as this goes, it might not even be possible to use this application on your tranny as I don't really know Ford tranny set ups incredibly well.

You might know all of this already or you might not. I just thought I'd try to lend a 100th opinion like I said whether you use it or not.

Anyway, good luck finding the right combination!
 
That'll work for fords....

@ Alex.... When you brake the pinion...You still load the frame...

When you brake the wheels you preload the suspension....

Ever notice what happens when you just rev the motor.... it pulls on the frame...

No matter what you load frame unless you use a STICK...

Preloading the suspension is a good thing though...
 
That'll work for fords....

@ Alex.... When you brake the pinion...You still load the frame...

When you brake the wheels you preload the suspension....

Ever notice what happens when you just rev the motor.... it pulls on the frame...

No matter what you load frame unless you use a STICK...

Preloading the suspension is a good thing though...

I agree.
 
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