twin P-pump?

I plan on rebuilding the advance on my 3406 this winter. I'll have pictures for you.
 
9724VF350 said:
Part of the problem with copying the cat setup is just the sheer amount of force it would take to advance a P pump and have it not back off during the injection event when the advance is under significant load, then snapping forward to advance position, creating a long, slow injection that actually results in lesser performance than a non advance gear.

The stock P7100 drives much harder than most of the cat pumps. Start adding fast cams, big plungers, and big rpm and the force required to make a effective advance increases exponentially.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
RockinRam96 said:
So, there would be two injection events?
Click to expand...

Yes two injection events. Richards first setup had a y-block on top of the injectors with lines from each pump going to them. He changed it later on so that the y block was on or really close to one of the pumps with short jumper lines going to it and then single larger lines across to the injectors.
 
Last edited:
9724VF350 said:
Part of the problem with copying the cat setup is just the sheer amount of force it would take to advance a P pump and have it not back off during the injection event when the advance is under significant load, then snapping forward to advance position, creating a long, slow injection that actually results in lesser performance than a non advance gear.

The stock P7100 drives much harder than most of the cat pumps. Start adding fast cams, big plungers, and big rpm and the force required to make a effective advance increases exponentially.
Click to expand...

First reasonable explanation I have seen on avoiding it. Thank you for that.


Are mechanical injectors going to react fast enough for multiple events given the two pumps on different time scenario?

Are the pumps going to have issues with overlapping events?

Any problems with one pump trying to back feed to the other?


Just being the devils advocate to keep the horse in front of the cart. Sometimes people jump past the small details.
 
zfaylor said:
9724VF350 said:
Part of the problem with copying the cat setup is just the sheer amount of force it would take to advance a P pump and have it not back off during the injection event when the advance is under significant load, then snapping forward to advance position, creating a long, slow injection that actually results in lesser performance than a non advance gear.

The stock P7100 drives much harder than most of the cat pumps. Start adding fast cams, big plungers, and big rpm and the force required to make a effective advance increases exponentially.
Click to expand...

First reasonable explanation I have seen on avoiding it. Thank you for that.
Click to expand...

I would believe this.

I don't know about the forces to keep the advance but what I do know is that a Bosch style injector requires more fuel than a Cat injector. A Caterpillar injector does not have a fuel return, the only fuel return is off of the pump. If Bosch style injectors are used, the caterpillar pump needs much bigger barrels and plungers to supply the injectors and the return. Bigger barrels and plungers = more force on the stroke.

But I don't see why bigger weights or longer arms wouldn't compensate for the greater force to hold the advance.
 
zfaylor said:
First reasonable explanation I have seen on avoiding it. Thank you for that.


Are mechanical injectors going to react fast enough for multiple events given the two pumps on different time scenario?

Are the pumps going to have issues with overlapping events?

Any problems with one pump trying to back feed to the other?


Just being the devils advocate to keep the horse in front of the cart. Sometimes people jump past the small details.
Click to expand...

Richard ran a set of standard DDP injectors in his truck. Not sure on the LPM but they were big. He never had a problem with the pumps or backfeeding.
 
I'm going to stick with one pump on mine after some consideration, but I think It'll be belt drive. The more I think about it the more I think I'll leave the pump where it's mounted, remove the pump gear, and add an extension shaft to protrude through the front cover with a support bearing and seal and mount the toothed pulley out on the front of it ahead of the serpentine belt.
 
I have envisioned a hydraulic setup that uses engine oil, but not necessarily engine oil pressure. Need a gear that has a hydraulic piston, cylinder, ect to cause it to move. A two piston ring style rotary seal to feed it, and a small hydraulic pump to provide pressure. The outlet of the pump has a tee with one side going to the hydraulic advance gear, the other side of the tee has a restrictor that can be changed to change the rpm/pressure relation.

Hydraulic adjust gear drive is almost required to create a advance that will keep deflection under load to a minimum, and I think a dedicated hydraulic supply would be needed to keep pressures linear and adjustable.
 
I just acquired a john deere 12mm p3000 style pump that has an electronic governor and rack position. The only info I could find said its set on the motor at TDC and has 21* of advance. Only thing I could find in the pump to allow this was notched plungers. I called seth, but I was busy when he called me back and forgot to ask the questions I needed.

If they made these style barrels or plungers for the 7000 series or just put a rqv gov on the 3000. Having a electronically controlled rack makes me not so sure if the timing advance is linear with rack travel though. I saw a ED video of a 6CT with a CR conversion. Custom injectors cp3 adapted onto it.
 
I wonder sometimes if we would be better off with VVT

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top