wont run unless at 45* timing

97ramctd

97ramctd

New member
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
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92
Well long story short i put a newer motor in my truck, installed my pump on it (everything locked in), it wouldn't even start. So we advanced it a little bit (so we thought) and it ran great, but over the past i'd say 4 months or so, it has blown 4 head gaskets. So we assumed it had to be timing causing this. We got a timing kit and checked the timing found it was right at 45*. We then dropped her down to 16* and now all it does is pop and crack when you rev it up. Thought maybe to much fuel so i backed the plate and the afc all the way back, no difference at all..
It ran great at 45* but at 16* runs like crap? Any ideas?
:what:
 
How many trucks have you timed? Are you sure you are timing it correctly? How are you making sure you are at TDC on cylinder 1? If I were you I would pin the motor and the pump and see if it will run. Oh ya and what is the motor out of?
 
i personally have never timed one myself but my buddy has done a few with no problems and he was doing it. The timing pin below the pump is what we used for tdc. The motor? Well I'm not sure what it Originally came out of. I got it from a guy who had it in a custom 18 wheeler, ford cab w/sleeper, and a dodge bed or some crap like that...

motor has no data plate
pump is a 913
If that helps anyone.....
 
the timing pin is far from accurate for TDC. use the drop-valve method to find true TDC. bring pump plunger up while turning in the direction of rotation. then double-check after you tighten the monkey snot out of the pump nut!

no offense to your buddy, but it sounds like you guys might be a bit off on your timing setting.

I'm guessing you've got it up around 20-25* and it's running great, and when you backed it off to 16, it's more like 10-12
 
well i guess we'll try the drop valve method tomorrow and try again and see what we get. I just dunno it's been nothing but problems with this thing.
 
The first guess is that TDC is off like others have mentioned. The next thing to check is that the governor weights have rotated inside the pump. Unfortunately that would require a trip to the pump shop to check.
 
joefarmer said:
The next thing to check is that the governor weights have rotated inside the pump. Unfortunately that would require a trip to the pump shop to check.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't this affect it no matter the timing?
 
I am wondering if the pump isn't locked timed? I know I had my pump set at 20 degree's. Nice and easy for making adjustments on the pull truck because when I have the engine at TDC the pump is at 20....if I want to bump it to say 30, I just lock the pump and turn the engine over to 10 degree's on the ballancer and bingo.

Just curious if your TDC is right and your pump is advanced already!

RyanB
 
97ramctd said:
Well long story short i put a newer motor in my truck, installed my pump on it (everything locked in), it wouldn't even start. So we advanced it a little bit (so we thought) and it ran great, but over the past i'd say 4 months or so, it has blown 4 head gaskets. So we assumed it had to be timing causing this. We got a timing kit and checked the timing found it was right at 45*. We then dropped her down to 16* and now all it does is pop and crack when you rev it up. Thought maybe to much fuel so i backed the plate and the afc all the way back, no difference at all..
It ran great at 45* but at 16* runs like crap? Any ideas?
:what:
Click to expand...


is the pump installed correctly ? maybe the cam in the truck you pulled it from is different from the cam in the injection pump so you need a lot of timing to get it to run ?
 
Good point Money, how would I ever know. Guess I need to get ahold of Kevin to find out a little more on the motor.
 
97ramctd said:
Not exactly sure what you mean Ryan
Click to expand...

just how the pump is set compared to the timing pin... doesn't really matter if you use the drop-valve method (which is still more accurate than a timing pin)
 
joefarmer said:
The first guess is that TDC is off like others have mentioned. The next thing to check is that the governor weights have rotated inside the pump. Unfortunately that would require a trip to the pump shop to check.
Click to expand...

I never knew this could actually happen, but that was exactally the deal on my 913(spare) pump, good thing I pulled the Gov housing off to check it out. The upside is we'll get to see what I.I. can get out of the pump.

Jim
 
I'm going to be checking timing on my truck soon enough and am curious about this drop valve method everyone is talking about. Can someone explain? I'm guessing you just bring the motor over until number 1 doesn't allow for the valves dropping at all is this correct? Thanks.
 
NickTF said:
I'm going to be checking timing on my truck soon enough and am curious about this drop valve method everyone is talking about. Can someone explain? I'm guessing you just bring the motor over until number 1 doesn't allow for the valves dropping at all is this correct? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Crank down the intake valve on #1, turn the engine over (by hand) until it hits the valve. Mark the dampener with a fixed point on the engine then rotate the engine the other direction (by hand again) until it hits again. Mark the dampener with the same point you used earlier. Now measure between the two marks, the center will be TDC.
 
dodge359 said:
Crank down the intake valve on #1, turn the engine over (by hand) until it hits the valve. Mark the dampener with a fixed point on the engine then rotate the engine the other direction (by hand again) until it hits again. Mark the dampener with the same point you used earlier. Now measure between the two marks, the center will be TDC.
Click to expand...

I'm confused by what you mean "crank down"? How exactly would I go about doing this? Do you use the rocker's adjustablity to crank down over the pushrod until the rocker pushes down on the valve all the time? Thanks man, just want to make sure I have this right!
 
WOW... just do the job right...Get the tools you need. Magnetic dial indicator set. Take out # 1 injector, drop in indicator with extention, find exact TDC. No worrys about bending fragile valves by coming up agaisnt them with the piston. remove # 1 pump obstrusctions . Remove gear on front of engine with puller, rotate pump to desired timing height on # 1 and reinstall gear..
 
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