Hydrogen generators on Diesels, How come no discussion? 60 MPG Duramax?!?

Trapper said:

I have a friend running this on his gasser, it just seems wired he get good mileage for a while but it seems to go back to normal after the PCM figures its getting to much fuel, I told him to reset the PCM by pulling the fuse to the PCM to reset it and I havent heard back form him. It seems to me its still not worth it has has 2 big pickle jars set up, hes thiinking he can profit from sellin sets to people.

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Your buddy needs to "trick" the o2 sensors, because the computer thinks it knows how much oxygen is going in the engine 21% and it knows how much oxygen remains unburned in an ideal 14-1 ratio. When you add hho, the amount of oxygen is greater than the pcm would like to see causing it to think it's burning leam thus adding extra fuel and counteracting any benefits of hho. This is called adaptive learning by the pcm.

There are a few ways to trick the sensors. You can either build a module yourself to alter the voltage from the sensors, or buy them from companies who make them for about 50 bucks, you will need one for each O2 sensor. There is also a so called the "Internet fix" which consists of wrapping the O2 sensors in aluminum foil and securing with copper wire ( I cant figure how this works) but those who have tried it say it supposedly does. The problem with that is, when you choose not to make hho for whatever reason, the engine will run way too lean causing other damage.

A system that undoes a reaction just to redo it in the name of creating energy is ridiculous. All systems have looses due to friction and heat. An alternator is only about 85-90% efficient. The reaction of burning H2 gives heat and light. Some people with these systems on gassers notice an increase in MPG or power because the PCM is tricked into running lean. As we all should know, gassers make more power and use less fuel when running lean. The problem is that they have more wear and more heat when doing so. PCMs are programmed to add fuel to cool down combustion under heavy load. It should also be mentioned that gasses have no specific volume, so a claim if a liter of H2, could easily be a misrepresentation. People want to believe a lot of things, but the laws of physics are hard to bypass...

Random_user said:

A system that undoes a reaction just to redo it in the name of creating energy is ridiculous. All systems have looses due to friction and heat. An alternator is only about 85-90% efficient. The reaction of burning H2 gives heat and light. Some people with these systems on gassers notice an increase in MPG or power because the PCM is tricked into running lean. As we all should know, gassers make more power and use less fuel when running lean. The problem is that they have more wear and more heat when doing so. PCMs are programmed to add fuel to cool down combustion under heavy load. It should also be mentioned that gasses have no specific volume, so a claim if a liter of H2, could easily be a misrepresentation. People want to believe a lot of things, but the laws of physics are hard to bypass...

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You are not creating pure hydrogen, it is technically HHO, which is a molecule that consists on a hydorgen molecule bonded to an oxygen, water is HOH. A gas engine burns about 33% of the fuel in the combustion chamber, diesels burn about 75-80%. HHO is 3 times more potent than gasoline, and physics explains the law of conservation of energy, " you can not get more energy out of what you put into it" so how does this work? You are completing the burn in the combustion chamber, thus adding more power, less heat because it turns into steam and lower egt and less smoke and quieter sound. Gasses are measured in volume, at atmospheric pressure. So it is true you cannot run your vehicle on water with a generator like the one being explained because your alternator would need to produce more energy than what its getting. But you can increase your fuel economy by leaning out fuel and substituting with hho gas, I make and install these for some extra cash on the side, you can find a lot of news clips on youtube and other related videos on boroughs that use these and so much more. If you're wondering about the duramax I know two different people who don't get less than 40mpg. Any vehicle can triple their mileage, this is due to size of generator/alternator/battery combo. It is possible to run a car on water but with AC current, hho contains enough kinetic energy or stored energy that is ready to be let lose.

Sounds good. Can you provide any 'proof' of these two? It would be good to triple the mileage of mine, that's for sure! (Poor mileage tripled is going to be pretty good mileage actually!!)

I'm ready to give it a try!

Tuning is the most important part of any hydrogen induced system. Through overriding the pcm or ecm through a digital controller that can control air fuel ratio and or timing is the key. Mythbusters did a special on it. They did prove you can run a car completely off of hydrogen...but, the car backfired. That is where the flash back arrestor comes into play. Also, they didn't have a catalyst to help with electrolysis. (baking soda) At any rate, you have to be careful with this step as we burned up a motor. You won't get the most out of it until you can modify these tables. It does work. We had a dual cannister type system set up on a later model wrangler and saw a 40% increase in mpg. As far as the amp drawing, we ran a bigger alternator to help with the load in a big system. There will always be skeptics in anything is this world. Do some significant research and get it done.

fordcummins01 said:

Tuning is the most important part of any hydrogen induced system. Through overriding the pcm or ecm through a digital controller that can control air fuel ratio and or timing is the key. Mythbusters did a special on it. They did prove you can run a car completely off of hydrogen...but, the car backfired. That is where the flash back arrestor comes into play. Also, they didn't have a catalyst to help with electrolysis. (baking soda) At any rate, you have to be careful with this step as we burned up a motor. You won't get the most out of it until you can modify these tables. It does work. We had a dual cannister type system set up on a later model wrangler and saw a 40% increase in mpg. As far as the amp drawing, we ran a bigger alternator to help with the load in a big system. There will always be skeptics in anything is this world. Do some significant research and get it done.

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NASA proved in the 70's that you can run an engine off of hydrogen (note that there is a difference between hydrogen, hydrogen fuel cells, HHO, etc). The problem is, you CANNOT run an engine off of hydrogen you generate from electrolysis hooked up to a vehicle's alternator (this is HHO). Even if you did put in a "bigger" alternator, you still can't even come remotely close.

The best HHO generators put out less than 3 liters per minute. Your typical diesel will gulp down that much air in a second driving down the highway. The HHO is so far diluted that you won't really see much (if any) of a difference.

Oh, and Mythbusters did NOT run the engine off of HHO. They shot straight hydrogen into it from a tank of compressed hydrogen (this was NOT HHO). The motor only sputtered and ran until that hydrogen was burned up. Your claim that they didn't use a "catalyst" to help produce more hydrogen is just crap. That would have made zero difference, and the engine still wouldn't have run. Oh, and it backfired because it was running way too lean, and there was too much pure hydrogen (not HHO) in the intake track.

It is absolutely impossible to run an engine off of HHO generated from electricity from an alternator. Electrolysis is the most inefficient method we have of producing hydrogen.

By the way, running an ICE (internal combustion engine) on hydrogen only results in extremely low engine longevity. They don't last nearly as long as they would running gasoline. What's really sad is that people who promote "tuning changes for HHO" or even fooling sensors (such as O2 sensors on gas engines) are actually causing more engine damage, and significantly lowering the life of the motor. Diesels not so much, since there really aren't any tuning changes (diesels don't have a set air/fuel ratio like gas engines, and can be perfectly happy running rich or lean). So running hydrogen on a diesel won't really affect anything.... including mileage.

Lastly, fuel cells are completely different, as those engines use a reaction between hydrogen and oxygen to create electricity and water.


Oh, and I'm calling BULLCHIT on your claim of 40% increase in mileage on your Jeep. Most of your "mileage gains" were from huge changes in timing, and extreme lean conditions on the motor that destroyed it. Anyone can get an increase in mileage that way... hydrogen had nothing to do with it. :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

And you wonder why the engine burned up :bang

Mythbusters did many things wrong but in their defense the information and plans that are out now were not out then. You also have to remember that HHO and HH are two different gasses. HHO is what we're producing, HH or H2 is pure hydrogen. Also, the catalyst to use is lye, salt and baking soda will deteriorate your plates or create carbon.

I installed one this morning on a dodge ram 1500, 01 with a 5.9 automatic with 4.10 gears. She was getting 11-12mpg in the city and with the 15plate generator I made out of blank wall plates from home-depot (cheaper for customer to buy) it now gets 19-20mpg city I bet if she did some more ie: exhaust, intake, plugs, she can pull a few more mpg. It draws about 12-15 amps so no worries about the alternator or battery.

Sensor wise, on diesels modify the map or maf sensor on gassers modify the O2 sensor. Carburetors just lean back the fuel with a pressure regulator and you can put a valet switch on 12 valve cummins to lean out fuel.

I know of a guy who will be putting 2 8"x8" dry cell 15 plate generators with pwm (pulse width modulator) more current with less heat. On a 2008 duramax and I can only imagine what he will get getting, I will keep everyone updated. PM me for my personal e-mail or number if you'd like me to build and mail you one.

Pocket said:

NASA proved in the 70's that you can run an engine off of hydrogen (note that there is a difference between hydrogen, hydrogen fuel cells, HHO, etc). The problem is, you CANNOT run an engine off of hydrogen you generate from electrolysis hooked up to a vehicle's alternator (this is HHO). Even if you did put in a "bigger" alternator, you still can't even come remotely close.

The best HHO generators put out less than 3 liters per minute. Your typical diesel will gulp down that much air in a second driving down the highway. The HHO is so far diluted that you won't really see much (if any) of a difference.

Oh, and Mythbusters did NOT run the engine off of HHO. They shot straight hydrogen into it from a tank of compressed hydrogen (this was NOT HHO). The motor only sputtered and ran until that hydrogen was burned up. Your claim that they didn't use a "catalyst" to help produce more hydrogen is just crap. That would have made zero difference, and the engine still wouldn't have run. Oh, and it backfired because it was running way too lean, and there was too much pure hydrogen (not HHO) in the intake track.

It is absolutely impossible to run an engine off of HHO generated from electricity from an alternator. Electrolysis is the most inefficient method we have of producing hydrogen.

By the way, running an ICE (internal combustion engine) on hydrogen only results in extremely low engine longevity. They don't last nearly as long as they would running gasoline. What's really sad is that people who promote "tuning changes for HHO" or even fooling sensors (such as O2 sensors on gas engines) are actually causing more engine damage, and significantly lowering the life of the motor. Diesels not so much, since there really aren't any tuning changes (diesels don't have a set air/fuel ratio like gas engines, and can be perfectly happy running rich or lean). So running hydrogen on a diesel won't really affect anything.... including mileage.

Lastly, fuel cells are completely different, as those engines use a reaction between hydrogen and oxygen to create electricity and water.


Oh, and I'm calling BULLCHIT on your claim of 40% increase in mileage on your Jeep. Most of your "mileage gains" were from huge changes in timing, and extreme lean conditions on the motor that destroyed it. Anyone can get an increase in mileage that way... hydrogen had nothing to do with it. :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

And you wonder why the engine burned up :bang

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Diesel have maf or map sensors and they control fuel to air ratio from incomming air which controls how much will be injected. There is no sensor like an O2 sensor to read exhaust mixtures. Because of laws of physics it is so true that you cannot run an ICE off of hho you produced through electrolysis, but you can in fact increase your fuel economy to a satisfying level. The hho gas actually burns hydrocarbons from your engine, lowers egt's, completes the burn, and runs quieter. There is news articles and what not of people who run their vehicles completely off water but they use AC current, remember HHO has kinetic energy which doesn't mean your using electricity to make HHO but actually using electricity to release the kinetic (or stored) energy, same principle goes to shooting a gun, the energy used to release the trigger is not obviously greater than the power of the bullet, it's because your pulling the trigger was enough energy to release the kinetic energy.

diesel133 said:

Diesel have maf or map sensors and they control fuel to air ratio from incomming air which controls how much will be injected. There is no sensor like an O2 sensor to read exhaust mixtures. Because of laws of physics it is so true that you cannot run an ICE off of hho you produced through electrolysis, but you can in fact increase your fuel economy to a satisfying level. The hho gas actually burns hydrocarbons from your engine, lowers egt's, completes the burn, and runs quieter.

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You obviously don't know how a MAP sensor works. It's based on PRESSURE, not oxygen/hydrogen/etc content. Since HHO output is so low, it has zero effect on pressure, thus a MAP sensor has no readings on it whatsoever, and thus nothing to adjust on a diesel. You have just stumbled onto a forum where people know way more than you do.

If you're adjusting tuning and MAP variables, then you've just achieved the exact same thing that any tuner on the market can do, and you've just benefitted from the exact same mileage gains that you can get without an HHO setup. But congrats on wasting money to install an HHO generator anyway. This is the entire hocus pocus magic act of dealers who push their HHO generators. They have these kits that not only install a generator, but also make tuning changes and/or fool sensors on the engine (claiming it's necessary to get the full benefit of HHO). The result is you get better mileage due to the tuning or changes to sensor inputs, not from the HHO. The main problem is with gas engines, as changing the tuning and fooling sensors typically results in a very lean condition. You end up with hot spots, and burn the engine up prematurely. :bang

Tuning changes (gas or diesel) always will have a larger effect on mileage than HHO. No single HHO generator can gain more than a 2% mileage increase in the absolute best case scenario. Most of the time, HHO results in a 0% net change in mileage (some kits can even cause a drop in mileage). Anything beyond that is the result of tuning changes, not HHO.

There is news articles and what not of people who run their vehicles completely off water but they use AC current

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Yeah, I saw a video of that. It was a lawnmower engine, and it idled for only a couple of seconds. When the guys in the video tried to throttle up, there wasn't enough hydrogen, and the engine died. Then they couldn't get it restarted. Takes a lot more amps than you can get through AC current to generate enough HHO to run any car or truck motor, much less a 5 hp lawnmower engine. :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

In addition, there are other videos of lawnmowers running off of HHO with a car battery hooked up. In case you didn't know, car batteries supply more amps than an AC outlet (typical AC outlets are routed through a 15 amp breaker), and some batteries can provide over 200 amps continuous for about an hour. In these videos, they can get a lawnmower to run strictly on HHO (the videos are on Youtube, anyone can look them up). Of course, this isn't possible to do with a typical automotive electrical circuit, since it would drain the battery down to useless in well under an hour, and the electrical components (and alternator) don't support that kind of heavy electrical draw to begin with. But hey!!! the power is there to run a small lawnmower engine, right? Heck, you can even build a homemade welder with a car battery and some jumper cables. Doesn't mean there's enough juice there to power a vehicle engine, and there certainly isn't enough amperage in a typical automotive electrical circuit to make any significant change in mileage using HHO.

And if you are wondering how many amps it takes to generate enough HHO to match your claims.... about 1500 amps to provide a 40% increase in fuel mileage on a typical 4 cylinder gas engine. Which is why I cry foul on your bogus claims in mileage boosts.

remember HHO has kinetic energy which doesn't mean your using electricity to make HHO but actually using electricity to release the kinetic (or stored) energy, same principle goes to shooting a gun, the energy used to release the trigger is not obviously greater than the power of the bullet, it's because your pulling the trigger was enough energy to release the kinetic energy.

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Someone needs to attend a physics class.

Any vehicle can triple their mileage, this is due to size of generator/alternator/battery combo.

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Complete and total lie.

It is possible to run a car on water but with AC current

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Another complete and total lie, and I've just explained why.

Hmmm... Diesel133 has a total of 3 posts on this forum so far, and they are all about promoting HHO kits.




I smell the stink of troll.....

Pocket said:

Hmmm... Diesel133 has a total of 3 posts on this forum so far, and they are all about promoting HHO kits.

I smell the stink of troll.....

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I also smell the stink of someone who's never taken a chemistry class and KNOWS the electron shell structure and bonding sites for hydrogen and oxygen. I've tried to come up with a response (several times) to the falsehoods he's posted and usually end up :bang since there's no way someone like that can be persuaded by unassailable TRUTH...

...but if this troll can triple fuel mileage with his odorless stink gas, is that not enough? :hehe: :umno:

First of all I am not an hho dealer or vendor or any of that it's just a hobby, the youtube posts I was talking about was not lawnmowers but many boroughs and cities using these on their dump trucks and police cars and what not. I am the only one on here who has one running on my personal vehicle that I know of and it's working great, as for the map sensor, map is manifold absolute pressure, maf is mass air flow I know what both of them are and do, but the reason why (if you don't have a tuner) you trick the sensor is because you will increase your fuel economy much more by leaning out a little bit of fuel and substituting with hho. When I put this on my truck I didn't have the money for a tuner, which yes does the same, so I put on a $25 map sensor enhancer to run the engine slightly lean and substitute with hho. I do now have a tuner and just set it on fuel economy mode. And for those wondering I pick up 6 more mpg when I use the map sensor enhancer or tuner and the hho lowers my egt's a little. I just use the tuner now. There is vehicles and one is someone I know who have tripled their mileage, it is a sunfire not a truck so nothing was complicated there. But I still want to see one person out there who claims it doesn't work (like I did) try it and see for yourself.

I guess the part about map or maf tuning improving fuel mileage blew clean over someone head. :bang

diesel133 said:

There is vehicles and one is someone I know who have tripled their mileage, it is a sunfire not a truck so nothing was complicated there.

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Wow I got a good laugh out of this one. Apparently he thinks we are all stupid and gullible here...


You can't fool us, we all know it's impossible to triple gas mileage in any vehicle with HHO, including a POS Pontiac Sunfire.

OK i specifically joined this site to ask a question about this since, after reading all of this I am extremely confused??? My brother bought plans and I am willing to try it on my truck, 02 duramax, so will it work any bit, I was assuming 15% increase. It kinda makes sense but I'm not sure. I don't see youtube videos on boroughs using it by the way.

I always wondered what would happen if you paired a hydrogen generator with one of these: Waste Heat Engine

Course the added cost and weight of hauling a 10kw generator around might offset the benefits.

dekocards90 said:

OK i specifically joined this site to ask a question about this since, after reading all of this I am extremely confused??? My brother bought plans and I am willing to try it on my truck, 02 duramax, so will it work any bit, I was assuming 15% increase. It kinda makes sense but I'm not sure. I don't see youtube videos on boroughs using it by the way.

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Yes it will work and will be alot greater than 15%, I'm not going to explain myself anymore but check out http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/ also look up all the info for smacks booster. Do you have a tuner already?

PPE i get average 21 mpg on fuel economy mode, that's with an intake and straight pipe exhaust too, what can I get with that and a generator, If I can get 30 ill $h!t my pants, I like smacks booster better I wasn't fond of the glass jar design, it doesn't seem like you get a lot of gas.

Ya or check out dry cells they're more expensive but you'll get your money back just as quick and since everyone friggin takes it as a joke every time I post mileage results I'll just tell you get the toilet paper ready. Check out eBay for the deals.