Hydrogen generators on Diesels, How come no discussion? 60 MPG Duramax?!?

Umm...yes but I am going to wait another tank before I say what I am getting! As for non-believers throwing out science to back it up there's got to be one thing missing.....it's working (so far) and it's a big difference, it's not different driving habits or leaning out fuel, it's too much of a big difference and I know it's the hho, I don't know if it's increasing thermal efficiency or what but it's working. I will be doing filling my tank again on Saturday, and in two weeks will be towing my boat so I can give you towing mpg as well.
 
Have you hand calculated any of these gains? Or are you going solely off the edge you just recently installed? After reading Pocket's posts, I don't see how this could possibly be a big gain. I also agree with him that if it was such an awesome upgrade it would be much more mainstream than it is. $.02
 
I only had the edge on that day to see what it said, I have PPE, I hand calculated and tomorrow will be my second tank hand calculated. I've hand calculated almost every tank full since I had the truck. As for pockets science info I believe every part of it because its not an opinion its all the facts and laws he's providing. But I think there's still one thing missing because it's working, I know the laws of physics and chemistry and why its not "supposed to work" I have a theory but want 5 tank fulls to see how good that theory is. The only reason why I tried is because I saw it on TV so many times and my brother paid for it hahahahaha. But I won't be fully satisfied until I reach my 5th tank-full and it reads what I'm getting now.
 
dekocards90 said:
I only had the edge on that day to see what it said, I have PPE, I hand calculated and tomorrow will be my second tank hand calculated. I've hand calculated almost every tank full since I had the truck. As for pockets science info I believe every part of it because its not an opinion its all the facts and laws he's providing. But I think there's still one thing missing because it's working, I know the laws of physics and chemistry and why its not "supposed to work" I have a theory but want 5 tank fulls to see how good that theory is. The only reason why I tried is because I saw it on TV so many times and my brother paid for it hahahahaha. But I won't be fully satisfied until I reach my 5th tank-full and it reads what I'm getting now.
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Cool, thanks for clarifying. I'm curious what gain you'll see after your 5th tank...
 
Well I filled up again Saturday and I have the same gain as the 1st tank. This is not highway driving, it's a lot of stop-n-go but increase is dramatic. For those wondering I fill it until the click, set the odometer to 0, drive....fill it up til it clicks, divide the miles by gallons.
 
Filling up till it "clicks" is not an accurate way to fill up. You need to fill up till you can see fuel in the filler neck. When I'm trying to be really precise, I shake the bed a little when it starts getting full and fill up till the fuel reaches the vent in the filler neck a few inches below spilling.
 
No, because that goes above the sensor or what ever is in the tank, I used to do it that way but found its inaccurate.
 
I forgot to mention my third tank right now is still accurate, I will either be filling it up tomorrow night or Saturday morning. For a heads up I have a 26 gallon tank and always fill around 20-22 gallons per fill.
 
dekocards90 said:
No, because that goes above the sensor or what ever is in the tank, I used to do it that way but found its inaccurate.
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How can it be inaccurate if you're filling it to the same point in the filler neck each time? He was probably getting at the point that each nozzle doesn't click off at the same time, so you don't know for sure you're getting the same amount of fuel each time. It has nothing to do with it being above the fuel level sensor.
 
Because you're tank can be reading 100% full for a gallon or two. I am thinking about purchasing the scan gauge, because it gives you a lot of precise information of your mpg, and how much fuel per minute and how much % full your tank is.
 
Turbo Performance is absolutely right. In order to ACCURATELY HAND CALCULATE mileage, you must fill it with fuel to the filler neck. By not doing this, you have completely defeated the purpose of hand calculating your mileage.

deckocards90 said:
No, because that goes above the sensor or what ever is in the tank, I used to do it that way but found its inaccurate.
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Sorry, but you've got it wrong. With this statement, you just proved that your display is inaccurate.

You have already mentioned that you run with a tuner on your truck in econo mode. Any time you modify a vehicle, diesel or gas, any sensors/scanners/gauges you try to use to calculate mileage can no longer be considered reliable. The reason is that modifications change how the PCM will calculate engine load vs throttle position. Since it's no longer stock (and the PCM requires stock calibrations to calculate mileage), then they can no longer be considered accurate. Even in stock form, the electronic mileage calculations are not always correct. They are simply a lazy man's guide, to give you a close estimate of mileage, but not an accurate representation.

Again, you mentioned that your display is accurate with your hand calculations. However, since you don't properly fill up all the way, you've force your hand calculations to be consistent with an electronic display. THIS IS THE WRONG WAY TO DO IT! If you fill with fuel all the way to the filler neck, run it empty, then hand calculate mileage, and it's different than your display... IT MEANS THE DISPLAY IS INACCURATE. As I already mentioned, you've already proved to us that your display is inaccurate, since you are getting different readings than what you hand calculate when you fill up to the filler neck.

Why must you fill up with fuel to the filler neck? Simple, the issue is foam. As you fill a diesel tank up, the fuel foams up. What happens is the foam reaches the filler neck, and automatically clicks off the pump. You might think the tank is full, but it isn't. Depending on the tank configuration and the amount of foam, you could still add anywhere between a 1/2 gallon to 8 gallons worth of fuel. Problem is, you don't know how much foam is in there at each fillup, so your calculations will never be based on the same amount of fuel in the tank. The ONLY way to be certain is to fill up with fuel, not foam, to the filler neck. That is how you guarantee that you are calculating fuel mileage from the exact same quantity of fuel.

Start over on your mileage calculations, and fill up with fuel to the filler neck. Otherwise, you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to reporting your mileage results with hydrogen.
 
dekocards90 said:
Because you're tank can be reading 100% full for a gallon or two.
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Who cares?


Again, the point of hand calculating mileage correctly is to eliminate gauge inaccuracies. If your gauge can't read the last 2 gallons of fuel in the tank, it means the gauge is wrong.


Take for example my truck, it is "rated" by Ford with a 29 gallon tank. If I run it completely empty, and then fill it up with fuel all the way to the filler neck, I can exceed 32 gallons on a fillup. By doing this, I can drive well over 100 miles with the gauge still reading full. What does that tell you about the inaccuracy of my fuel gauge?

Also, I run a custom tuned chip on my truck. The mileage display always shows my fuel mileage to be much higher than what it actually is. The best "hand calculated mileage" I have ever found has been 18 mpgs. My overhead display has hit well into the 30's on numerous occasions. Again, hand calculated mileage by filling up with fuel to the filler neck is the ONLY way to accurately find out your MPG's. Period.
 
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You could potentially show a big MPG difference (+ or-) just by the way you fill your tank and calculate mileage. Fill it until the nozzle clicks, drive until empty, fill it to the neck and mileage is "down". Vice versa and mileage is "up."

Either way, the overhead lie-o-meter is not the way to calculate mileage in any case.
 
I agree about how to "fill to the neck" but after 5-6 tanks of fuel we'll see the difference. It might not be 'spot-on' but it should be close. If the "gas" is really doing the trick and the mileage has improved that much we'll know by the numbers. Numbers being where the odometer started, it's current point and the total fuel purchased (not burned) so far. We ALL drive differently and we all know in "mileage tests" that knowingly or not the tester will squeeze a little more out of it.

Deck (?) What was your mileage before the test, stock? What was the mileage after the tuner, and what brand? What is the current "guesstimated" AVG MPG?
 
Burner said:
I agree about how to "fill to the neck" but after 5-6 tanks of fuel we'll see the difference. It might not be 'spot-on' but it should be close. If the "gas" is really doing the trick and the mileage has improved that much we'll know by the numbers. Numbers being where the odometer started, it's current point and the total fuel purchased (not burned) so far. We ALL drive differently and we all know in "mileage tests" that knowingly or not the tester will squeeze a little more out of it.

Deck (?) What was your mileage before the test, stock? What was the mileage after the tuner, and what brand? What is the current "guesstimated" AVG MPG?
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Can it be close? Maybe, but it can also be fairly far off too.

Here's the problem, he is trying to prove mileage on a mod that his highly doubted by most people (myself included). If he really wants to prove to us that this mod works, he needs to track mileage correctly. Otherwise, very few people will be willing to accept his results.

Sorry, but that's how it works in real life.
 
How about I fill a 5 gallon container of diesel, and let my truck run bone empty, put it in so I can go to a gas station and fill it to the neck and actually record how many miles I go and how many gallons I put in from now on. Even before I put the generator on I used to fill it to the click, I read on multiple web sites that the pressure builds up within in the tank and that what causes the "click" how ever the pressure builds up around 26 gallons in my case. How difficult will it be to get a 5 gallon container and hook it up to my fuel line so I can actually drive and run out of fuel.
 
What pressure? Tanks have vent tubes that take care of that problem.
 
Well, you really can't do that 5 gallon thing. Your pick-up tube might not be in the best place as you run out of fuel. Think about this... If you fill a glass with very cold ice and add fresh coke what happens? You will get a lot of foam, right? Do you wait for the foam to drop down or do you just leave with 3/4 full glass? Diesel is about the same way. The best thing you could do is fill the tank 110%. Fill it until the neck is full and then shake the truck and fill it again. You want ALL of the air out you can get out. Run that tank 3/4 down or so and try get back to that exact same pump and fill it again, the exact same way. Do this 4-5 times and then you'll know better of what your mileage is.

So, what do you "think" you have bettered so far in MPG? It's ok to guess, it's just a guess.
 
First off: I'm not picking on any of you; but, some of what all of you have said is correct..
Mileage is not hard to calculate! But to get very accurate measurements you have to use what the pump says it dispensed. Vehicle fuel gauges just aren't that accurate. The trip computer usually isn't accurate either. Mine wasn't accurate stock for that matter. It is always higher than reality. Sometimes it is only 2 MPG high... Other times it can be more than 5 MPG high... All I'm saying is don't trust them! Really all a vehicle gauge (Of any kind) is good for is to show you a change in operating conditions. If you notice that when the fuel gauge reaches 1/4 of a tank it always takes you 28 gallons to fill back up; then you have a close 'guess' as to how much is left in there. If you think you can be sure that there will definitely be a certain amount of fuel left in there I predict you will be one of the people we see walking along the road with a little red can in hand.
If you are going to be accurate in figuring your mileage by hand, you do have to fill up to the same point each fill up. On my Dodge I can actually get fuel standing in the fill pipe in the same place each time (Thanks to relocating the vent; this happens much faster now!). On my little ricer, I can't get the fuel up to where I can see it, so I have to do a few 'clicks' and hope for the best. This does bring up a point you might have missed. If a log is kept of each fill up, you can average over several fill-ups. Even his method of filling until the first click will yield fairly accurate results over many fill-ups. As long as you keep in mind that from one tank to the next the differences can be several MPG on paper and in reality the vehicle might have gotten the same mileage. The difference being in not filling the tank to the same level each time. I find that most vehicles will do pretty consistent mileage as long as something hasn't changed. Changes can come from different operating conditions or from changes in the vehicle itself. This is why I do log every tank faithfully. If I see an un-warranted drop, I can look for a problem.
If you want to get down to it: Even the odometer should be checked for accuracy. Some people who claim very high mileage figures probably have an error introduced into their calculations somewhere. If you want to see how accurate your odometer is: check it on a long trip on the freeway. Write down the odometer reading and the mile post near the beginning of your trip. Hopefully you can go at least 100 miles and write down these numbers again. A short 5 mile "Speedometer Check Station" is only good to check your speed (You can check your speed anywhere at any time with a stop watch! If you want to know how, just ask!)!
Anyway, I would be willing to accept his figures over many tanks. If they show a close average from tank to tank (In the same operating conditions) then they are pretty close.

Ok, now: How much of a change are we looking at? How much of a difference in mileage does water injection make? I was under the impression that water injection would give you about 1 or 2 MPG increase....

Oh, and Deko: You do not have to run your tank out to figure your mileage!! All the mileage calculation is the gallons you used for how many miles you traveled! You can fill up at any time you like! All that matters in accurate mileage calculations is that you fill up to the same level from tank to tank and that you write down the odometer at each fill-up. You can use the trip odometer as long as you reset it each time or subtract the last reading from what it shows at the current fill-up. Since mistakes do happen, I always record both odometer and trip odometer and then reset the trip for the next tank. It is easy to make an Excel spreed sheet to enter these values into that will even do the calculations for you! I'll gladly share the one I have with anyone that would want it!!

Really keeping track of your mileage is only good for two things: Bragging rights with the fellow on the opposite side of the pump (Or computer screen!) and to keep track of how well your vehicle is running. Like I said earlier: it can help you spot a problem as soon as it happens. I also use it as an indication of the condition of tune up and what not.
My darn Dodge Mega has always gotten 14 to 15 since new. No matter what I tried it would not do better (This was it's 'best' . . . ). I feel real fortunate as of late to have gotten it up to 18 +. Now maybe I can move on to 'hyper' mileage!!
 
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