Drag Racing Rules

DavidTD said:
NADM rules require loops for Quick Diesel... BUT we will be running NHRA rules at Famoso as our ASO is not complete. NHRA rules state 11.49 or slower on DOT's DON'T require loops. NHRA also state anything quicker that 14.0 ON slicks DO require loops.:Cheer:
Click to expand...

Any reason why the NADM would require loops in their rules if NHRA is cool with 11.49 and quicker? Just curious . . . Thank you for the reply on this!
 
7000lb average truck weight vs. 3500lb average car weight. Safer is better, IMHO.
 
joefarmer said:
7000lb average truck weight vs. 3500lb average car weight. Safer is better, IMHO.
Click to expand...

I'm all about safety. Has there been a drive shaft broken in Quick Diesel before or even Pro-Street?
 
Brandon, you beat me to it... I was typing this while you replied.

While possibly controversial I see it like this:

1.7 60' @ 3500 LBS = drivetrain stress
1.7 60' @ 7000 LBS = drivetrain STRESS

Many NHRA rules simply didn't intend for us to defy physics the way we do with these heavy beasts. (I'm not intending to downplay the knowledge and value of NHRA rules at all. They are just not written with us specifically in mind.) The stresses we put on drivetrain and transmission parts is incredible. No other vehicles anywhere on the face of the earth, move the amount of weight we do as quickly as we move it.

In the history of drag racing, when did anything 7000+ lbs run 11.xx in the quarter mile before diesel trucks made it possible? I can't think of anything. If I'm wrong, somebody correct me. (Non exhibition vehicles only, for those googling to prove me wrong.)

I'm guessing with that said, the margin of risk was deemed to be great enough at 11.99 vs 11.50 to warrant requesting competitors to loop a shaft at a little earlier in the ET range.

Nobody wants to see this:
P1000094.JPG


Turn into this:
31.gif
 
I don't recall that a driveshaft has at any event I've been at. I did see an overdrive section split from the main part of the trans case once.

EDIT: DJ got a driveshaft in FL in his 2wd 6.0l, I remember it wailed on his stacks and messed up the bed. Can't remember what else it did.
 
Last edited:
Amish Elegance said:
Brandon, you beat me to it... I was typing this while you replied.

While possibly controversial I see it like this:

1.7 60' @ 3500 LBS = drivetrain stress
1.7 60' @ 7000 LBS = drivetrain STRESS

Many NHRA rules simply didn't intend for us to defy physics the way we do with these heavy beasts. (I'm not intending to downplay the knowledge and value of NHRA rules at all. They are just not written with us specifically in mind.) The stresses we put on drivetrain and transmission parts is incredible. No other vehicles anywhere on the face of the earth, move the amount of weight we do as quickly as we move it.

In the history of drag racing, when did anything 7000+ lbs run 11.xx in the quarter mile before diesel trucks made it possible? I can't think of anything. If I'm wrong, somebody correct me. (Non exhibition vehicles only, for those googling to prove me wrong.)

I'm guessing with that said, the margin of risk was deemed to be great enough at 11.99 vs 11.50 to warrant requesting competitors to loop a shaft at a little earlier in the ET range.

Nobody wants to see this:
P1000094.JPG


Turn into this:
31.gif
Click to expand...

Yeah, nobody wants to go pole vaulting with a 7,000lb truck on their back. I definitely would not . . . However, although I agree our trucks are a lot heavier than stuff racing in the NHRA, our components are equally built to the task. I honestly don't think an Art Carr built TH400 trans would last one 4 wheel drive launch behind a mildly modified 7,000 Diesel but they hold up to wheels up launches behind 3,400lb drag cars all the time . . . Anyway, rules are rules and I understand they are for everyone's safety including the guy or gal in the next lane. Thanks for your reply!
 
I do believe in loops for our trucks and will be putting a set on, just didn't find out soon enough.


Email to and from David D.

Hello David,

I'm still unclear on the driveshaft loop rule. NHRA is 11.49 and your rule book is 11.99. I think you just posted that tech will be NHRA. I will not run under 11.5 et(not possible) but may dip into the high 11's.

Do I need loops to compete on 2/23. I'll be driving 14 hours, and want to have the rule nailed down.

Thanks,
Rob

Hey Rob,

Looking forward to meeting you and sorry for not getting to this sooner...

You should be ok down to 11.49.
 
I will add to what has been said...

Obtaining ASO status with NHRA is what we are doing. This is a process that requires our rules to be approved. Once this is completed, we become responsible for the insurance.

Why ASO? Because it allows us to step outside the NHRA rules for things that apply to our trucks that they haven't thought of (good or bad).

We are not trying to reinvent the wheel, just want the flexibility to manage the diesel end ourselves.

Yes, i have seen two shafts come out. Both front driveshaft in Dodge's. One was an ET truck and the shaft beat the crap out of the underside (happened near the traps) and the other had loops, and aside from the clang clang from it banging in the loop, there was no damage.
 
DavidTD said:
I will add to what has been said...

Obtaining ASO status with NHRA is what we are doing. This is a process that requires our rules to be approved. Once this is completed, we become responsible for the insurance.

Why ASO? Because it allows us to step outside the NHRA rules for things that apply to our trucks that they haven't thought of (good or bad).

We are not trying to reinvent the wheel, just want the flexibility to manage the diesel end ourselves.

Yes, i have seen two shafts come out. Both front driveshaft in Dodge's. One was an ET truck and the shaft beat the crap out of the underside (happened near the traps) and the other had loops, and aside from the clang clang from it banging in the loop, there was no damage.
Click to expand...

Yikes! Will be looking into loops. :thankyou2:
 
Lots Of Questions On Drag Racing Rules For NADM

Hate to be a dummy but what is ASO?
Will there be a printed rule book for drag racing come out from NADM? And if so, when?
Will NADM be racing on the west coast anymore this year?
Is there a schedule somewhere I can look at?
If I have a low 10 sec truck and don't want to compete in the Unlimited Street class due it being 1/8 mile will I be allowed to run Brackets?
If I do decide to run Unlimited Street, can I get full pass time slips during test and tune?
If all of the Unlimited Street trucks were 2 wheel drive would we still be talking 1/8 miles races or 1/4?
We are currently building a 4x4 Duramax that will be in the 5600 lb range. It has a roll cage rated for 9 sec. Is the fact that many of the Unlimited Street trucks don't have 9 sec roll cages what's causing the switch to 1/8 racing?

If that the case, why not have them install a 9 sec cage?
 
Amish Elegance said:
Brandon, you beat me to it... I was typing this while you replied.

While possibly controversial I see it like this:

1.7 60' @ 3500 LBS = drivetrain stress
1.7 60' @ 7000 LBS = drivetrain STRESS

Many NHRA rules simply didn't intend for us to defy physics the way we do with these heavy beasts. (I'm not intending to downplay the knowledge and value of NHRA rules at all. They are just not written with us specifically in mind.) The stresses we put on drivetrain and transmission parts is incredible. No other vehicles anywhere on the face of the earth, move the amount of weight we do as quickly as we move it.

In the history of drag racing, when did anything 7000+ lbs run 11.xx in the quarter mile before diesel trucks made it possible? I can't think of anything. If I'm wrong, somebody correct me. (Non exhibition vehicles only, for those googling to prove me wrong.)

I'm guessing with that said, the margin of risk was deemed to be great enough at 11.99 vs 11.50 to warrant requesting competitors to loop a shaft at a little earlier in the ET range.

Nobody wants to see this:
P1000094.JPG


Turn into this:
31.gif
Click to expand...

Looking at this picture I see the rear seal pushed out on the driveshaft yoke and a discolored yoke due to heat. This tells you that this truck owner had a wiped out bushing in the extension housing and was leaking fluid like a sieve and ignored it. The seal did not come off the extension housing due to the yoke breaking; it was already pushed off. Thiswas an accident waiting to happen. Only drive shaft loops will save the pole vault or worse; hurt bystanders.
 
Subman631 said:
Hate to be a dummy but what is ASO?
Will there be a printed rule book for drag racing come out from NADM? And if so, when?
Will NADM be racing on the west coast anymore this year?
Is there a schedule somewhere I can look at?
If I have a low 10 sec truck and don't want to compete in the Unlimited Street class due it being 1/8 mile will I be allowed to run Brackets?
If I do decide to run Unlimited Street, can I get full pass time slips during test and tune?
If all of the Unlimited Street trucks were 2 wheel drive would we still be talking 1/8 miles races or 1/4?
We are currently building a 4x4 Duramax that will be in the 5600 lb range. It has a roll cage rated for 9 sec. Is the fact that many of the Unlimited Street trucks don't have 9 sec roll cages what's causing the switch to 1/8 racing?

If that the case, why not have them install a 9 sec cage?
Click to expand...


ASO = Alternative Sanctioning Organization. This is awarded by NHRA to groups such as ours that complete the necessary steps. Part of this process is rules approval. Currently NHRA has our rule book. Why are we doing this? Because it allows us to govern diesel drag racing. It also means that we will have to carry NHRA approved insurance, because NADM will become the party providing the event insurance. Again, why would we want to do that? Because it allows us to control what is legal for our trucks. We require a parachute at 140 mph. NHRA is 150. But NHRA was very happy we required it due to the excess weight of our trucks. So far the racers that do have them and exceed that speed, were happy to have them on some tracks. Yes, they have been thrown, and the first comment made to me was "maybe we need two". At ANY time we don't meet NHRA's expectations of managing our sport, our ASO status can be yanked.

We do not have another event scheduled for the west yet. We do have a couple of people asking us for it, and we are looking into it. But being 100% honest, we must stay within budget. Until I know we can fund the event, then have signed contracts, we won't announce them. We are very young (4 months old and 1 event down with another in 2 days) and while we would love to be all over the country, renting tracks for diesel only days is not cheap. We would rather put on a show like Crude Drags 2 then have everyone meet at a test and tune. Give us time to grow and get more financially sound and we hope to be in a city near you. :poke:

The 1/8th mile thing came about when I was talking to the Unlimited Street members over the last few months. This idea was brought to me, not the other way around. I then called every US member racer and discussed it. Not one racer said they had to have 1/4 mile. It was either yes I vote 1/8th, or it was it didn't matter, just as long as it was heads up. With the amount of things that went on prior to Famoso (setting the company up, getting rule books done and printed, setting up events, setting up sponsors, etc.) we have been quite busy. As I stated in the other thread, I failed to announce it. That is on me.

As far as how do we move forward, I can tell you the east coast guys are aware of this discussion, and the one's I have spoke with, still vote 1/8th. I will be talking to the other racers this weekend to see how they feel. After we hear what they want, we will internally discuss what we will do and will let everyone know.

Now, lets look at some facts on why we are concerned.

NHRA does not allow sub 10 second passes in 4x4 vehicles. They never expected diesel trucks this fast. They are not real excited about them being this fast either.

The tubing specs that NHRA requires for cages and bars are not rated for our weight. Some chassis inspectors will take a 7.50 spec cage, and rate it for 8.50 in our trucks due to weight. Right NOW that is all they know to do, but again, they are not excited about the liability issues these trucks potentially create for themselves. They are watching to see how we progress, we as in ALL of us.

Crankshaft center line rules state 31" down to 10.00, and 24" 9.99 and quicker. Anything greater than 36" FAILS tech. :rules:

The problems arise when tracks tech. Some know the rules better than others and some enforce tighter than others. As an ASO, we are consistent because all we have to know is our rule book for diesels. We make the call and if you fail in California, you will fail in Georgia too.

All of the east coast trucks capable of sub 10 passes have certified cages. They are legal to run. What we don't know at this point is, are they really safe?

As a former racer, I DON'T like 1/8th mile racing on a 1/4 mile track. But when nearly every sub 10 second US member asks for 1/8th mile, I assumed I was doing the right thing by listening to my racers.

I would expect a sanctioning body to look out for the over-all good of my sport. I would expect some things to not be the way I as a racer would want them, but would need to understand sometimes there is more to the situation than I am aware of. As I said earlier, I consider each of you a friend and fellow diesel enthusiast that I would not want to see get hurt.

We have two options, be proactive and rule on what we feel is safe, or show up at the track and let them tell us what is safe. Then deal with rule changes when they think they need to happen. I've seen most tracks require the mandatory long pant, over the shoulder shirts, and helmets while I have seen a truck make a 12 second pass without a helmet, in shorts and tank-top. If that guy had wrecked and got injured, do you think the track's insurance would cover the incident?

We have all been very lucky. These trucks are doing things on the track never done before. We have been fortunate to have only a few "near mishaps" or a brush of the wall or two, and only one truck I am aware of (saw the video) that literally just went over the wall and flipped. The good news is, what interested me in that video, was how well did this trucks bar hold up and was the driver ok, and from what I could see I thought it did really well with no injuries. The bad news was the truck hit and leaped the wall like nothing and this truck wasn't running NEAR the speed capable of today and was 2 wheel drive.

Sorry this was so long, been writing it off and on this morning around getting ready for the Redneck Nationals in Albany GA this weekend at US19 Dragway where gates open at 8:00 AM and time trials will start at 10:00 am. :hehe:

One more thing. We had rule books at registration last Saturday, and you can download it from our site at www.runNADM.com. :thankyou2:
 
Many will be turning away from NADM and not supporting this organization at all if you go 1/8, just what Ive heard.
 
Dave, this may not be relavent to what's being talked about but, for those of us not in the roll cage racing but in QD, ET..does the 1/8 also apply. Will there be no 1/4 slips period in NADM at this point and time ?
 
BTW.... any link to the video of the truck going over the rail ?

That should be a sticky on the top of main page !
 
triton said:
Dave, this may not be relavent to what's being talked about but, for those of us not in the roll cage racing but in QD, ET..does the 1/8 also apply. Will there be no 1/4 slips period in NADM at this point and time ?
Click to expand...

Hey Ty,

The only class that is set at 1/8th mile is US. QD - 12 second index whcih is heads up leave, and ET Bracket - staggered leave and legal to 10.00 is 1/4 mile racing. So is Pro Stock Diesel and Top Diesel 1/4 mile. The reason time slips stopped at the 1/8th at Famoso, is because the timing system was set up for 1/8th mile. US19 in Albany this weekend IS a 1/8th mile track.
 
DavidTD said:
Hey Ty,

The only class that is set at 1/8th mile is US. QD - 12 second index whcih is heads up leave, and ET Bracket - staggered leave and legal to 10.00 is 1/4 mile racing. So is Pro Stock Diesel and Top Diesel 1/4 mile. The reason time slips stopped at the 1/8th at Famoso, is because the timing system was set up for 1/8th mile. US19 in Albany this weekend IS a 1/8th mile track.
Click to expand...

thanks Dave. we'll see you this weekend.
 
Dalpilot said:
Many? Can you elaborate on the "MANY" ?
Click to expand...

well i will not be one of them as i think the NADM is a great organization. also had a great first outing. my new truck should be able to test the 1/8 as it will be fast enough to be in that catagory. if i had to run it i would, not by choice though. my point on it is i would much rather put on a show for the crowds , run the 1/8 rather than not run at all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top