Are common rail trucks going to ruin diesel motorsports?

2Tone12V said:
Like what? I can name alot of things a common rail can't do that the others have. AND stayed together. Can't name to many things a common rail can do that a p pump can't. I like them both. But I don't have the money to melt motors down once or twice a year. Hell just for the cost of injectors you well on your way on a pretty good 12 valve.
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Like smoke. It's obviously becoming a black eye to this industry and the CR is much more able to overcome that than a 12v ever will.

I hear Dan and Dennis have struck a deal to run with the big boys in NHRA next year. If they can get rid of the smoke to run in front of thousands of fans, that's gonna be a big help to the way fans and the industry looks at our sport

not all CR's are melting down. They're very new to making the power they do and it's just a matter of figuring them out to perform correctly
 
triton said:
Like smoke. It's obviously becoming a black eye to this industry and the CR is much more able to overcome that than a 12v ever will.

I hear Dan and Dennis have struck a deal to run with the big boys in NHRA next year. If they can get rid of the smoke to run in front of thousands of fans, that's gonna be a big help to the way fans and the industry looks at our sport

not all CR's are melting down. They're very new to making the power they do and it's just a matter of figuring them out to perform correctly
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Looks like Dennis will be unleashing the bottle! Wonder if Dan will do that?*nx*
 
2Tone12V said:
Looks like Dennis will be unleashing the bottle! Wonder if Dan will do that?*nx*
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NHRA has no problem with the smoke. Dan has been running top dragster for 2 years with no complaints. DP will eventually get around to spraying his truck.... He would put nitrous on a weedeater. LOL
 
The p-pumps have had 15 years to get where they are and the CR's have had 6-8 (6 for the Dodges and 8 for the Duramax). I'd say there are some fairly competitive CR trucks in pro street. Out here we have very little competition at most events so we haven't had the need to turn Max'D Out up. The new 2wd truck we are building and Max'D Out will be turned up for next year to hit all the big events across the country. I also know Buck is working on his set up as well. I think we will see the gap close every year between the CR's and the p-pumped trucks until the CR's surpass them and the CR's will do it clean.

Eventually people will build CR's to run in the Top Dragster and other classes. You don't see anyone beating a p-pump'ed car/rail because there is no one else not because they can't compete. The Cummins CR will gain ground with self tuning software or stand alone controllers like we are starting to see now too. Most of the top p-pumped trucks are running gobs of water to keep them alive where as the CR's aren't. That might be the key to keeping the pistons from melting in a CR too. Give it time. I think you'll see all the competition a p-pump never wanted.
 
It's funny how everyone forgets the years of tuning timing the p-pump have had. :) Carb vs EFI folks. There will be folks tossing that p-pump in the trash and making a CR cover for their 12v's before ya know it.
 
How often do you see people going backwards with tech. stuff???

Did you go back to a cassette a few years after the CD came out??? NO
Not too many things I can think of that people went back to for good once the new tech. progressed and worked the bugs out...

I agree with the CR becoming the Chit for the future...Just a matter of time and tunning and the CR will be the kings...

I still love a 12v too though...I'm looking for one now but just to have in a collection!! lol
 
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Lack of power has not been the problem. Reliability is. Perhaps there is more money in repairing CR motors and selling sub-standard electronics than there is in eliminating the problem that is causing the repairs. I guess our government must have gotten into the truck business while no one was looking.
 
I look at it this way,, if I aint blowing crap up,, I aint trying hard enough,, LOL. To be honest though, there is no way to find out the limits without someone pushing the envelope
 
Our p-pump truck pegs the EGT gauge 2000* plus going down the track and the pistons look great, now tell me why my CR EGT read 1500* and fried a piston and the motor wasn't heat soaked either. That was a single sled pull pass.
 
There are a few things that could cause that,, injector hung open for one...
 
Because in a CR the EGT gauge is junk. You are reading the exhaust temps but the CR is so efficient that there is not much left to burn in the outgoing exhaust. My friend burnt all the pistons out of his CR and never saw over 1400 on the EGT gauge. How did it come to be that 1250 EGT was as high as you should go for an extended amount of time. Maybe the CR burns the fuel in the cylinder so well that the cylinder temps are much higher with a lower EGT reading. I think you need to take out as much timing as possable and use water and lots of it. After seeing what happened to my friends engine I don't go above 1100 for a long period of time and I use the least amount of timing possable.

Joe
 
But a lot of timing moves the truck so well! As i'm fixing (expensive) crap and making progress with my truck recently, It's noticable in the butt dyno the different between timing 2 and timing 3. timing 2 just hauls over 2500.. timing 3 hauls under 2500 ;-)
 
yup, high injection pressure = efficient burn = a lot of heat, and I'm willing to bet that CR was running a lot more timing than the p-pump truck.

timing puts a LOT more heat in the piston crown
 
Timbeaux38 said:
NHRA has no problem with the smoke. Dan has been running top dragster for 2 years with no complaints. DP will eventually get around to spraying his truck.... He would put nitrous on a weedeater. LOL
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Better not have it on his big wheel if we race. It states in the Big Wheel racing rules. "No injection of any sort". LOL
 
give the CR another 5 to 7 years and people will see what the CR engine is really capable of. 12 valve guys have been tweaking there engines alot longer than us CR guys. we have alot more hurdles to get through. i think it is going to take some standalone engine managment companies to release products for our engines to see there full potential. i would personally love to see if some off the supporting vendors could get on the phone and talk with companies like Big Stuff Engine Management and see if they could start beta testing for our trucks. we are limited to the tunes that are out there on the market now, those companies set there own parameters and make the tunes to the way they see fit, until the day that we have full adjustability our engines will not be running the way they should.
 
2Tone12V said:
Better not have it on his big wheel if we race. It states in the Big Wheel racing rules. "No injection of any sort". LOL
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I want to see this in person!

Also to state next year there will be some CR's competing in the 3.0 class so time will tell. As far as 2.6 trucks being relaiable I haven't heard Of Wesley Wade melting down a ton of motors and I think he is defaintly one of the top 2.6 trucks in the Country.
 
One thing that everyone forgets, not many guys are trying to push their 12v anymore... they already know where they can go and thats that,,, us guys with cr's are still trying to find that limit... I personally dont think we are even close yet. I for one can honestly say that this is why I occasionally blow things up. I am not satisfied to be at this certain level, when I know that there is more there to find. I could easily back my truck off, run at 1000 1050 HP, run high 10's and do it reliably for along time,, but really,, whats the fun in that,,,
 
JasonCzerak said:
But a lot of timing moves the truck so well! As i'm fixing (expensive) crap and making progress with my truck recently, It's noticable in the butt dyno the different between timing 2 and timing 3. timing 2 just hauls over 2500.. timing 3 hauls under 2500 ;-)
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No power increase on my truck going from the least amount of timing to the most. none.
The least was probably already too much.



When we combine big injectors with agressive tunes, we're probably right on the edge in a 10-12 second drag race. I probably deserved to melt mine down trying to pull a sled down the track with minimal airflow around the engine WOT for 20-22 seconds. Live and learn.
 
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