Are common rail trucks going to ruin diesel motorsports?

JasonCzerak said:
There will be folks tossing that p-pump in the trash and making a CR cover for their 12v's before ya know it.
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LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

PIGS WILL FLY BEFORE THAT!

Dont get me wrong, the CRs have come up fast.
But I'm with Ron on this one.
 
tony597fitter said:
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

PIGS WILL FLY BEFORE THAT!

Dont get me wrong, the CRs have come up fast.
But I'm with Ron on this one.
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Well, they are putting efi on once carburated motors. They may not pull a "p-pump a vp44" with the cr parts, but dropping a complete cr motor in a 95 truck is not put of the question.
 
tony597fitter said:
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

PIGS WILL FLY BEFORE THAT!

Dont get me wrong, the CRs have come up fast.
But I'm with Ron on this one.
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I don't see any huge issues with running a 12v block/head with a CR-style injection system? Or even running a CR block, 12v head and standalone CR injection? :what:
 
JasonCzerak said:
Well, they are putting efi on once carburated motors. They may not pull a "p-pump a vp44" with the cr parts, but dropping a complete cr motor in a 95 truck is not put of the question.
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joefarmer said:
I don't see any huge issues with running a 12v block/head with a CR-style injection system? Or even running a CR block, 12v head and standalone CR injection? :what:
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Then WHY are guys putting P-Pumps on twin CP3 CRs?:what:

P-Pump is going to be VERY hard to beat for the performance world.

IF a CR-injection is the "cats ass" then WHY are the big boys in drag racing and pulling STILL using them?
 
Dude it takes time! Where was efi in racing in 1985? No where! What about 1990? Maybe a few!
 
well when some random solar flare knocks out your electronics i will still be rollin down the road!! :lolly:
 
Hats off to all of you guys that are spending very large amounts of money testing stuff knowing the probable outcome. I don't have the patients nor the finances to do so. Good to know there are VERY dedicated guys that won't give up. I want to see them succeed and be able to compete in everything. Cause if anyone deserves it. It is you guys that are taking $40,000 trucks and running the hell out of them to get where you need to be.
 
I think that where a few of you are missing what Jason is trying to get accross is this.

Yes right now the P Pump is the king, it has many years of development behind it, and the limitations have been found along time ago.

BUT the differences between the P Pump and CR are growing smaller day by day. Just like in the gasser world, it used to be that if you didnt have a carburator, you didnt have anything,, slowly but surely the fuel injection systems started to come on,,, now it is much rarer to see a carb'd vehicle anymore.. It gives 0 advantage on the strip. This will happen in our world too.. right now, the biggest advantage that a P Pump has is RPM,, we cant get the RPM out of our CR's yet,, that is probably the main reason you dont see any of the big guys running them yet. I myself am caught up in the cunumdrum of lack of RPM. I have the HP, but not the gearing to work with only 4000 RPM.. no matter what I do with the gearing I have, I am not going to go to much faster. Especially if I go to slicks,, and the only option I have is to go to 3.42 gears, which I guess will be next.

As far as reliability, they are all pretty close to the same,, when folks were first starting to build up the PPump, there was lots of carnage,, till everyone got it all figured out... you still dont see huge quanitys of 13 15 hundred HP PPump trucks, ( I know they are out there) but IMHO when you get to that kind of HP you are going to blow stuff up,,, I could run my truck at 800 900 hp and Im quite sure I could drive it at that level for years no issues...

Not only that, but because I tend to push the envelope a bit, my sponsors get better exposure, LOL
just my 2 cents....
 
I would imagine development will continue for both platforms, the p-pump having advantage in the form of a much earlier start which is a significant advantage. Afterall, the carb continues to evolve and contrary to what some have indicated here is still very much seen in maximum effort setups. For instance, the following quote from engine masters 2009:

"Interestingly, in the inaugural year for fuel injection, we had an all-carb line-up in final eliminations, "

Friday October 9th Engine Masters Challenge Finals Updates and Results Sponsored by Rottler | Popular Hot Rodding Magazine Article at Automotive.com
 
I don't believe we've seen the best yet with cr tuning. Folks are still working on improving the tunabillity of the cr. D-max tuning is a bit ahead of the cr. The thing that gets a lot of folks in trouble is it's cheap and easy to make power with a cr. You just plug in a pressure box turn it up and pop an injector. A lot of folks have never had a wrench in their hand and no nuthing about tuning a engine. When something's not right they don't have a clue and end up with major dammage. I have heard changing anything on the new CRs may be very difficult with their locked ecm. So we may want to take care of our CRs and hold on to them.
Billy
 
You guys keep your eyes on Bones, he as on track to show us all something.
 
JasonCzerak said:
Dude it takes time! Where was efi in racing in 1985? No where! What about 1990? Maybe a few!
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morkable said:
I think that where a few of you are missing what Jason is trying to get accross is this.

Yes right now the P Pump is the king, it has many years of development behind it, and the limitations have been found along time ago.

BUT the differences between the P Pump and CR are growing smaller day by day. Just like in the gasser world, it used to be that if you didnt have a carburator, you didnt have anything,, slowly but surely the fuel injection systems started to come on,,, now it is much rarer to see a carb'd vehicle anymore.. It gives 0 advantage on the strip. This will happen in our world too.. right now, the biggest advantage that a P Pump has is RPM,, we cant get the RPM out of our CR's yet,, that is probably the main reason you dont see any of the big guys running them yet. I myself am caught up in the cunumdrum of lack of RPM. I have the HP, but not the gearing to work with only 4000 RPM.. no matter what I do with the gearing I have, I am not going to go to much faster. Especially if I go to slicks,, and the only option I have is to go to 3.42 gears, which I guess will be next.

As far as reliability, they are all pretty close to the same,, when folks were first starting to build up the PPump, there was lots of carnage,, till everyone got it all figured out... you still dont see huge quanitys of 13 15 hundred HP PPump trucks, ( I know they are out there) but IMHO when you get to that kind of HP you are going to blow stuff up,,, I could run my truck at 800 900 hp and Im quite sure I could drive it at that level for years no issues...

Not only that, but because I tend to push the envelope a bit, my sponsors get better exposure, LOL
just my 2 cents....
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I'm not sure what tracks you guys go to, but I go to the fastest track in the USA. Route 66. I am there EVERY test and tune, and EVERY NHRA event.
Funny thing is, I STILL see more carb'd cars than fuel injection.:pop:

I also frequent Byron race track and its the same there also.

I'm ALL for technology, BUT my opinion is that CRs are going to have meltdown issues for A LONG TIME.

BTW Jason, I ran a 1988 Mustang 5 liter into the 10s in 1991 so YES EFI was there, and I wasnt even the fastest.
I was told time and time again to tear off the EFI and go to a carb, never did just to prove people were wrong.
Also, fuel injection has been around since the 1920's. It was mostly used in airplanes.
As far as the statement of where was fuel injection in the 80s for racing, Porsche, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, AMC, VW, Benz and so on were using EFI in the 1950s.
 
JasonCzerak said:
good, then I won't have read you stupid comments on the intertubes!

Lol
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just havin some fun! lol its all good. :poke:

on CR topic, my dad just went through all 6 injectors and that job cost him almost 3 grand. :doh:

one thing you cant beat the 12 valve on is the cheap parts.
 
Since when does EFI out power a properly setup carb? Someone better let the Prostock and Nascar guys know.
 
since the advent of standalone engine management.some people who are old school will always say to stay away from the electronic realm in vehicles, regardless if it a gasser or a diesel. i think that is being very narrow minded. the same thing that is being said about the CR was being said about the efi engine versus a carb 12 years ago. like it or not efi is dominating the gasser world. i have no issues with a carb engine or a 12 valve diesel. they have there place in motorsports, but so do efi and CR's, and give it another 5 to 7 years and CR's will be right with the 12 valve.
 
i don't think that CR's will be the death of the diesel racing but there are still limitations of these engines until some more innovations are made. the p-pump has had alot of the innovations made and has be way ahead of the CR's. but why can't we just all get along??
 
B18B1LS1 said:
Those guys don't count, they are way cooler than us! I would assume the "tuneability" of EFI is a big factor in F1 though. Not so much straight up horsepower.
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Can the average guy that makes $60k per year and has a Mortgage afford to field a Formula 1 car?
(sorry, i posted just to be the 100th )
 
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