HE351VE on a 12 valve

did that turbo have an exhaust brake function? If it did do you mind sharing how you got everything to work together. We are all open to ideas.
 
Performance and hp were the goal so it never got pursued. If you want an exhaust brake you probably need a 351 instead of a 431 and then you sacrifice exhaust flow because of the small turbine wheel. The 431 we used was the pressure controlled style so I just fabbed up a bracket that left the actuator mount the opposite direction so instead of requiring electronic pressure modulation off the ECM it only requires boost or drive pressure to open the diaphragm and allow more exhaust flow.
 
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We are using the 351, because we are interested in both, the faster spool with more boost, and the exhaust brake feature. Little more complicated making it all work in conjunction than it is to move the diaphram. It actually needs to stop in a certain stop and still be able to move past it to get the exhaust brake. But thank you for your input.
 
BlackSkyRacing said:
Yes it sealed up fine until my clamp broke.... The V part split down the middle because we didn't line things up right with the exhaust :bang

Gonna put stacks back in my truck soon so I'll fix it then, but yes. It worked fine even though the flange is a hair bigger than the HX40's
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Thanks for the information! That will make it much easier since i wont have to build a downpipe:rockwoot:

The compressor piping should be pretty simple to build. All i need is some 3 inch O.D. pipe, and i should be ready to put this baby on when all my other parts arrive. I dont have to mess with the wastegate like you guys do though.

I just think its pretty sweet that with a $200-$300 factory turbo, and some fab work, us 12v and 24v guys can have a good 400-500hp charger. :rockwoot:

Eric
 
Good to see someone else doing this. I have just recently put one of these turbo's on my 03 CR Dodge using a stock waste gate actuator to open and close the collar.(I say collar, because it is a VGT, not a VVT, the vains don't move, the geometry does).

Anyways, I have had pretty good luck with my setup and will gladly help out anwering any questions, but will throw out a few things I have found:

First off, you don't want to run things off drive pressure. That would kill your spool up. The boost reference lets it stay almost closed were it idles with 1-2psi of, about 12psi of back pressure. You have to have some drive pressure to get quick spool up, hence the whole purpose of this turbo. As boost builds, the collar opens and back pressure drops to around 1:1, depending on how touchy your actuator is set up.

Second, the lever must have some sort of notch that has to be past to go into exhaust brake mode. No matter how I set up the actuator, it would never fully close. It seems to need just a little more, like an 1/8" click to get it to go all the way back. This actually works out well, because you don't want it to shut all the way every time you let off the pedal. I am going to rough it for now and just rig up a manual cable to click it into exhaust brake mode when needed. Lets face it, if you couldn't get the exhaust brake to work it would defeat half the purpose.

And lastly. I have my actuator opening at about 4psi. Boost is literally instant. I can easily hit 17psi or more just cruising around town in Tow/Haul mode. Egts are great, cool down isn't bad, but will improve greatly when I get the coolant plumbed in. The sound out the exhaust is like nothing else, especially when the exhaust brake is activated. And at idle, the exhaust brake keeps egts over 500*, which makes for fast warm ups in the winter.

All I have for now.
 
Isn't drive pressure going to be slightly higher under spooling? Don't know much about any of this, but if its equaled, would the energy 'drive pressure' lose some of its force if derated due to not enough boost built yet?
 
Jcummins said:
Good to see someone else doing this. I have just recently put one of these turbo's on my 03 CR Dodge using a stock waste gate actuator to open and close the collar.(I say collar, because it is a VGT, not a VVT, the vains don't move, the geometry does).

Anyways, I have had pretty good luck with my setup and will gladly help out anwering any questions, but will throw out a few things I have found:

First off, you don't want to run things off drive pressure. That would kill your spool up. The boost reference lets it stay almost closed were it idles with 1-2psi of, about 12psi of back pressure. You have to have some drive pressure to get quick spool up, hence the whole purpose of this turbo. As boost builds, the collar opens and back pressure drops to around 1:1, depending on how touchy your actuator is set up.

Second, the lever must have some sort of notch that has to be past to go into exhaust brake mode. No matter how I set up the actuator, it would never fully close. It seems to need just a little more, like an 1/8" click to get it to go all the way back. This actually works out well, because you don't want it to shut all the way every time you let off the pedal. I am going to rough it for now and just rig up a manual cable to click it into exhaust brake mode when needed. Lets face it, if you couldn't get the exhaust brake to work it would defeat half the purpose.

And lastly. I have my actuator opening at about 4psi. Boost is literally instant. I can easily hit 17psi or more just cruising around town in Tow/Haul mode. Egts are great, cool down isn't bad, but will improve greatly when I get the coolant plumbed in. The sound out the exhaust is like nothing else, especially when the exhaust brake is activated. And at idle, the exhaust brake keeps egts over 500*, which makes for fast warm ups in the winter.

All I have for now.
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Couple questions,

I understand the drive pressure needed to spool the sucker up. How much drive pressure is being produced in "exhaust brake mode?"

Also, I do not have the notch you describe. I guess my 6lb force return spring in my actuator is strong enough to slam it shut.
 
I dont have the notch either. I saw someone else mention this as well.

Are you saying that if we use drive pressure to move the collar we would be moving it to soon and 'overspool' the turbo?
 
aborgardt said:
I dont have the notch either. I saw someone else mention this as well.

Are you saying that if we use drive pressure to move the collar we would be moving it to soon and 'overspool' the turbo?
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i think that drive pressure would move the collar too soon and wouldnt spin up the turbo fast enough to take advantage of the VGT.

Garrett
 
you can put a flow reducer or needle valve to slow the roll of the pressure to the actuator to tune the sucker in :)
 
aborgardt said:
I might be wrong here but i dont think you have any drive pressure without boost pressure and vise versa. drive and boost pressure should be 1:1. That said, if you wanted to use drive pressure to perform that function, you would be able to use boost.

Someone correct me if im wrong please.

Keep the ideas rollin though.
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I was talking for the exhaust brake only. Since an exhaust brake works by forcing the engine to work against its own back pressure in the exhaust you would have enough drive pressure to hold the collar closed while in the EB mode even if you don't have any boost pressure.
 
kazairl said:
I was talking for the exhaust brake only. Since an exhaust brake works by forcing the engine to work against its own back pressure in the exhaust you would have enough drive pressure to hold the collar closed while in the EB mode even if you don't have any boost pressure.
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If you convert the turbo to use an air cylinder instead of a wg actuator then put a spring inside the air cylinder to return it under normal operation and when you need the EB throw air pressure to it and push it farther into EB mode...unless I'm not understanding the problem. Yes I know it would take onboard air to operate it...unless a two-way valve is plumbed in and the boost line is switched to a vacuum source and vacuum pulls the cylinder back into EB mode.
 
LReiff said:
If you convert the turbo to use an air cylinder instead of a wg actuator then put a spring inside the air cylinder to return it under normal operation and when you need the EB throw air pressure to it and push it farther into EB mode...unless I'm not understanding the problem. Yes I know it would take onboard air to operate it...unless a two-way valve is plumbed in and the boost line is switched to a vacuum source and vacuum pulls the cylinder back into EB mode.
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Why not do something like that, except for use a solenoid with a lever/linkage of some kind so that when the solenoid was on, it created a stop to keep the arm from traveling all the way back, which would keep the Exhaust Brake from working. Turn the solenoid off, and the exhaust brake comes on because the stop moves out of the way allowing the housing to close all the way down. Seems like it would be much better, cheaper, more consistent and easier than using a compressed air setup.

Eric
 
Just put a short spring in the back side of the cylinder to keep it from going all the way shut...but not too strong that compressed air won't push it shut. I'm sorry to push the compressed air point but it really is the simplest method.
 
Cummins Driver said:
Why not do something like that, except for use a solenoid with a lever/linkage of some kind so that when the solenoid was on, it created a stop to keep the arm from traveling all the way back, which would keep the Exhaust Brake from working. Turn the solenoid off, and the exhaust brake comes on because the stop moves out of the way allowing the housing to close all the way down. Seems like it would be much better, cheaper, more consistent and easier than using a compressed air setup.

Eric
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thought about that, have to find a pull-type solenoid so its not energized all the time holding the turbo off of EB mode. The vibrations and heat of being directly mounted on the turbo might kill the solenoid faster as well.
 
I was thinking a shutoff solenoid off of a 12 valve might work. The heat could be an issue, and possibly the vibration like you said.

Here is a drawing i made up. I couldnt remember exactly what the 351VE looked like with the electronics closed, and this is of course just a rough drawing with no brakets or anything shown, but I think something like this would work.

Im putting a HE351cw on mine, but i still think its pretty cool to mess with the VE chargers.

Eric
 

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