lets see pics of traction bars

dixon700 said:
Never heard of an engineer actually working on somethin. All they do is make stuff work on paper. Let me guess your an engineer and probably a master fabricator, and a master mechanic.
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You are equally inbred as phucking stupid.

Better learn a little more about life and me before you continue to make yourself look liike a moron.

You can remove your foot from your mouth after you read some old threads or even just look in my gallery.

By the way...a metallurgist knows most about chemical properties of metal, not the physical or structural properties, and certainly nothing about static, direct, or finite element analysis. Surely you could have picked up a basic dictionary or used Google to prevent that blunder.
 
To keep this thread on the the CORRECT path...

The best choice of shape for the bars depends on the style.

For a compression only style...ie bar connected to bottom of axle to bottom of frame with pin type connections....ie a single hiem or bushing on each end, the best choice in shape is the largest diameter round tube with a thin wall that is practical. There is no way to determine which way it would BUCKLE in failure...so round is the best choice for its similar properties in all directions.

For a lever arm style...ie bar connected to top and bottom of axle to bottom of frame with a pin type connection...ie dual hiems or bushings at the axle and a single at the frame, the best choice of shape would be rectangular tubing...as deep as possible with a practical width andwall thickness since the mode of failure is BENDING. You would want a shape to be deeper in the vertical plane.

Now...the above is the most bang for your buck (or pound of steel). The only reason to use a thick walled or solid shape would be for concern of local deflecton or denting from an impact...or for an increase in mass/weight.

A tube beats a solid of any depth or diameter smaller everytime. A solid beats a everytime EQUAL dpth or diameter everytime. Last but not least...a tube beats a solid EVERYTIME that is of EQUAL WEIGHT per length.

It couldnt be more cut and clear...
 
dixon700 said:
You pretty much said I was right in the last post.
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You cant read or comprehend well enough to see that i did not even come close to saying that.

I am not a genius...nor a know it all. I simply know quite a bit about what I do. You cannot make the comparison you are making because it more than likely apples to oranges...different trucks, different conditions, different mounts, different day, weather, on and on.

I am not any different behind a keyboard than face to face. You simply have no clue what your talking about. Period.

Its too bad you cant step back and learn something.
 
The metalurgist was a fabricator for over twenty years. He's seen it many times on high stress tubes the solid pieces bend. There is more dimensions to the tube and its harder to bend a tube. I'm not inbred and would prefer not to be told so. You also don't have to be such a pompous ass because you have a degree and sit at a computer. A kid I knew bent a set of solid tube trac bars on his 7.3 power stroke.
 
I'm not even saying just for traction bars. I would like to know how weather would affect tubing from bending. Well tell me this. Since your an engineer. Do you do any actual real world testing? As in taking a piece of tubing and a piece of solid tubing and seeing the amount of pressure it takes to bend each?
 
"Wow, everybody is tough behind a computer. Some days I hate forums, because people like you think you know everything about just about everything. You just can't stand to be told your wrong. Because of that degree. What I'm saying is from living life. A buddy bent a set of solid 1" traction bars, that are much heavier than my trac bars. Also the metalurgist was also a fabricator for over 20 years. If you want to continue to be an all knowing self proclaimed genius. So be it. Why would I give a damn. You sure are quite an ass. I've seen solid tube bend before a good 1/4 walled piece of tubing. There is a more deflection in solid tubing."

I would assume his 1" dia solid bars were smaller diameter than your 1/4" wall tube ones...which PROVES my point...NOT YOURS!

That still makes a huge assumption that the trucks a similar, the conditions were similar, the mount style, length, material, and about a dozen other things were similar too.

In in way over your head now. Erasing stupidity is impossible on the web.
 
I've never seen anything to prove solid round tubing to be stronger. I don't want to argue with you. I have never seen an instance where I felt there should of been solid round instead of tube.
 
dixon700 said:
I'm not even saying just for traction bars. I would like to know how weather would affect tubing from bending. Well tell me this. Since your an engineer. Do you do any actual real world testing? As in taking a piece of tubing and a piece of solid tubing and seeing the amount of pressure it takes to bend each?
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Actually i do...right outside my office door. If you want...I could calculate the force required...then go prove it on a test stand. Still want to proceed? I guess if wont be a waste of my time to prove the obvious that has been proven countless times over the history of modern man if you will appologize for your insults to my profession.

BTW...I do all three...engineer, fabricate/weld/machine/weld, and use the stuff.

There is nothing pompous about me...just tired of the bs spreading on this forum.
 
cquestad said:
I would assume his 1" dia solid bars were smaller diameter than your 1/4" wall tube ones...which PROVES my point...NOT YOURS!

That still makes a huge assumption that the trucks a similar, the conditions were similar, the mount style, length, material, and about a dozen other things were similar too.

In in way over your head now. Erasing stupidity is impossible on the web.
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I was actually never discussing my bars. I was
Making a general statement about round tubing. Which I have never seen proven any different. I edited because I felt there is no need for me to be saying that about someone I do not know and was slightly upset. There is no reason to be like that on a public forum. I try to compose my self better than that. You obviously know more than me about tubing. I'll stick to what i know and never use solid tubing. Whatever you do is up to you. My trac bars are actually a set of cpp bars.
 
dixon700 said:
I've never seen anything to prove solid round tubing to be stronger. I don't want to argue with you. I have never seen an instance where I felt there should of been solid round instead of tube.
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Quick question...when you say you feel something about the choice of solid versus tube...what are you basing your feelings on? The direction the wind is blowing or sound proven science...the same science you enjoy and apparently take for granted in every aspect of your daily life.
 
Well I guess I sure look like an idiot and you truly made your point. I'm am not a professional at any of them. I already stated you obviously know more than me. I will apologize for calling you a pompous ass, mocking the engineering stuff, which normally is pretty accurate... Should if stopped when I had the chance, so now everyone can see that I'm the ass all over the internet. Oh well.
 
I guess I took science for granted. Guess I'll never start an argument on a forum again.
 
Keep your chin up!

Just save "absolute" opinions/statements to the areas in life that you specialize in...
I am sure there are some!
 
I'd rather see real world test then words. How bout both of you put your money where your mouth is and PROVE your point and not just "state the facts". I will wait for a video...
 
rnemovr said:
I'd rather see real world test then words. How bout both of you put your money where your mouth is and PROVE your point and not just "state the facts". I will wait for a video...
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Be prepared...this will be fun! Give me 30 mins.
 
I will save you the equations...

1 inch solid round...calculated to not yield at 32 inches with a 200lb force.

picture.php


1 inch tube 0.113 wall...calculated to not yield at 2332 inches with the same force...clearly yield at 32 inches.

picture.php


Read more below.
 
Both of these shapes are equal diameter...but the solid weighs more than 2 times as much.

Their bending strength is directly proportional to their section modulus. The solid was 0.0982 in^3 where the hollow was 0.071 in^3 or about 70%. Hence 23-24 inches is 70% of 32 inches.

Ding ding ding...we have a winner! Math explains all of this!

The best choice...would be a 2.375 inch dia 0.109 wall with the same weight per foot as a 1 inch solid...but has a section modulus of 0.561 in^3...which is 5.71 times as strong at the same weight. It would have spanned 182 inches before failure...and I will need to find a bench more than 2i thousand pounds because it would have flipped that one over.

Believe me now?

Owned...
 
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