188/220 "drop in" cam

So the cam is not installed according to the manufacturers recommendation and you are complaining about it? :bs:
 
ILLINOISRAM said:
Unbroken, that paragraph was supposed to be a quote of Disturbed's from another thread. I had a machine shop build my motor. I cut the proper valve reliefs, installed the cam straight up like Zach said which was checked by the shop and was right on the money for intake centerline. They did a completed head job and set the valve springs at 1.380 and checked for coil bind. My **** is fine and ready to run.

Now how it runs is still to be determined. Lol

This customer of disturbed could have got the garunteed fit cam or nuted up and cut some valve reliefs and this thread would not need to be. Plus disturbed is a vendor bashing another forum vendor which I'm pretty sure is not supposed to be done. After all Zach was bashed for his thread. It should be the same rules across the board is all.
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First off this cam isnt suppose to have valve reliefs, 2nd to my knowledge they dont offer another drop in cam other then a cam that you would be better off with a stocker for the money. 3rd im green not blue. Im not a vendor. Further more the engine is together minus the head. Which means i would have to tear the engine back apart to cut reliefs and then reassemble and who is to pay when the engine is with in stock specs and said cam doesnt fit.
 
I told Disturbed in a pm that I apologize for the call out of him directly when a lot of what I was thinking was in response to a lot of the recent event. With his obvious opinion of Zach as stated in that paragraph and then this thread which Zach offers to help but the customer just wants his money back which tells me there is no need for this thread unless to jab Zach some more which should not be done by vendors, sponsors or moderators in my opinion which does apply to Zach also.

So that's where I come from.
 
I offered to tear it down and cut the pistons and he didnt want to do it. I posted here to get info and to show my findings not to fight. I was acctually hoping that a bunch of people had checked PTV on this cam but it seems not many have and the ones that have are in the same boat
 
I thought the 181/210 was the drop in cam? Is it not? Since it would not work I can see the need to go a different route but I'm cant help but read this and see the anti Hamilton cams vibe. If I hadn't of read that other thread then maybe I would have just skipped it. Hopefully you get your customer taken care of and all is good no matter which way you go. I really liked me Scheid drop in street cam for a regrind and they are not to badly priced either.

Tim
 
DISTURBED said:
I will degree it today but you are selling this cam as a "drop in". If the cam is suppose to be set with the center line at 99 then why isnt all the key ways ground to be set at 99?????? Point is if your going to sell it as one thing it better be that. Not well its suppose to be here but over there will have to do.
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Are you expecting the cam grinder to be responsible for a crank key slot or crank gear slot or cam gear slot if they are off a little? you could have a stack up of errors that cause an issue. This is what Zack is concerned about and NO-ONE knows what is in YOUR engine until you check it.
 
fox said:
Are you expecting the cam grinder to be responsible for a crank key slot or crank gear slot or cam gear slot if they are off a little? you could have a stack up of errors that cause an issue. This is what Zack is concerned about and NO-ONE knows what is in YOUR engine until you check it.
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Exactly, this is what he wants to find out so this issue won't happen again. He just wants to get to the root of the issue because he is proud of his work and wants it to be perfect, which is a very rare thing these days. So call and talk to the man.
 
I've seen a few engines with the crank gear dowel partially sheared to where you don't notice it until you start looking for it.

That pissy little dowel pin deal is beyond pathetic.
 
I think DISTURBED was more interested in finding some other PTV clearance measurements to compare and discuss what could be going on with what he is working with other than someone assuming that what he has will not work...

Hey DISTURBED did you by chance measure the PTV clearance on the exhaust valve too? Did you also just check the intake at 10 ATDC or did you check at 5* and 15* by chance?
 
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to respond to your guestion the 188/220s that have put in have been very tight and needed moved around to get clearance I think the last one was 96.75 icl I backed it up and opened the lash to get 25 thou ptv and called it good after talking to my customer. but I know when I buy a 188/220 that it will be tight and pushes the limits of what will fit. I does amaze me the number idiots in this industry that put parts like this in and don't check anything I refuse to install any cam for a customer without degreeing it and checking ptv. as for your customer its his own falt and should stop complaining he bought a cam that pushes the limits and it didn't go as planned if he wanted no hicups he should have bought a smaller cam.
 
For those of you that posted PTV clearence on this cam thank you. Im locking this thread since nobody wants to post results but would rather **** up a thread that could have good info for others that might buy these cams and run into problems. If some other find info pm me please if you would like but this one is done.
 
Per Zach's request i am going to reopen this since he thinks im running a smear campaign on him. I redegreed the cam and as i figured 2 degrees made little difference. I degreed the cam from the 97.25 to the 99 like you wanted and its still to tight. I have plenty of off set keys here. I put a 2* key in. The PTV went from .002 to .020 on the intake and the exhaust were in the .030 range. Still to tight. You dont want the truth out so im done. I am boxing it up and you can sell it to some one else. I actually checked it at every degree and will post it tomorrow when i get back to the shop what it is.
 
DISTURBED said:
Per Zach's request i am going to reopen this since he thinks im running a smear campaign on him. I redegreed the cam and as i figured 2 degrees made little difference. I degreed the cam from the 97.25 to the 99 like you wanted and its still to tight. I have plenty of off set keys here. I put a 2* key in. The PTV went from .002 to .020 on the intake and the exhaust were in the .030 range. Still to tight. You dont want the truth out so im done. I am boxing it up and you can sell it to some one else. I actually checked it at every degree and will post it tomorrow when i get back to the shop what it is.
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Everyone is out to get him, not post facts and prevent costly repairs because a salesman doesn't want the facts out in the public eye. Thanks for the information you are getting from your install Disturbed.
 
Installed a 188/220 in my brothers truck. 98.25* centerline, stock valve depth (didnt measure it), stock piston protrusion (didnt measure), standard thickness headgasket. Valve to piston clearance came in right around .040", I was told I would be fine with as little as .030"
 
DISTURBED said:
.040 off isnt even close to being a drop in

by the number decking is irrelevant

stock


Stock gear set straight up. You sent me this cam a month ago that a customer bought and had drop shipped to me. Somebody there sold him this cam as a "drop in" and the customer was told reliefs were not needed but as we can see they need them. He doesnt want to cut the pistons and thats why he wanted a drop in cam
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Disturbed, you are a third party to the actual sale of the cam, you weren't there and don't know what was said to your customer, do you? You seem to be playing catchup as the thread unfolds. For a regular member to act as you are, would be normal, but for a moderator to put forth hearsay as evidence, when the correct method of installing is easily available in writting (as shown) or a phone call away, and closing the thread! :pop:
 
this post has me wondering...regaurdless of whos cam it is...zac or someone elses....i sure would want to know a cam thats sold as a "drop in" thats been degreed in correctly after the fact and is still tight should be made known to the public PERIOD. i'm a neutral poster on here and have bought zacs stuff before. if i liked it or not is besides the fact. the fact is simple. someone is selling a cam that is way to tight. that is of course ASSUMING these tolerances were done correctly and not bias. i have no reason to think why they would be. no one in their right mind will spend there own time trying to make money and save a customer money just to post BS IMO. i bet any truck 4500rpm and up with this cam and same engine specs (stock) pulls their motor apart and it's touched valves every hole ASSUMING all this info is legit. all the other arguing and drama is irrelevant to me. i know i'd be a little aggravated. i've always wondered what real tolerances could be had with a drop in of this size. i dont know why guys dont just add more lobe lift and back off duration. in my personal experience they run way better as a drop in cam that way. just my $.02
 
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