VP Dynamic Timing Vs. Advancing

i dont see it being to much harder than a p-pump at 22+ deg, they seem to start fine and with the computer adjusting stuff to make it start i think it would fire right up
 
So what is the deal on the lines? They have to bend right? But you dont want them to bend.... Im confused. Cause Sean posted earlier but how to do it but I wanna say he forgot bout the key. He just said pop off the gear and rotate one tooth....

Guess I just need to pull it off and give it a try already.
 
Red Sleeper said:
So what is the deal on the lines? They have to bend right? But you dont want them to bend.... Im confused. Cause Sean posted earlier but how to do it but I wanna say he forgot bout the key. He just said pop off the gear and rotate one tooth....

Guess I just need to pull it off and give it a try already.
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all you have to do it pull the timing cover and pop the gear off the pump shaft and rptate the pump and gear one tooth clockwise and reinstall and go out and have fun and report back with your findings
 
Well I found out I need a tool to pull crossover tubes, injectors, and such. Dont have them yet, plannin on meeting the snap-on guy next week. Im gonna do it once I go back to school, have more time in the evenings and not so tired form work.... Hell, I couldnt figure out why I couldnt bleed my lines after I put my pump in. Turns out it all works better if they are hooked up to the pump....... I figured I better stop there before I mess somethin up.
 
01CumminsSport said:
all you have to do it pull the timing cover and pop the gear off the pump shaft and rptate the pump and gear one tooth clockwise and reinstall and go out and have fun and report back with your findings
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Exactly. We were only talking about flexible lines if there was a mechanism that actually rotated the pump, to change timing once going.

Its really straight forward otherwise. A 2 piece cover would be awesome. If you build one, make 2, and give me a shout. As far as hard starting. With 5* I only have trouble starting when its below freezing. And honestly, I wouldn't call it trouble, it just has to crack once or twice, instead of being just a blip of the key.
Sean
 
Red Sleeper said:
Well I found out I need a tool to pull crossover tubes, injectors, and such. Dont have them yet, plannin on meeting the snap-on guy next week. Im gonna do it once I go back to school, have more time in the evenings and not so tired form work.... Hell, I couldnt figure out why I couldnt bleed my lines after I put my pump in. Turns out it all works better if they are hooked up to the pump....... I figured I better stop there before I mess somethin up.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't need a tool. Just unhook the lines with a 19mm or 3/4" open end wrench. Remove the cross over tubes with a small flat blade screw driver. Come from the top or the side, and stick the point into the groves on the end and GENTLY pry. Keep a free finger behind them so the don't go flying. For the injectors, remove the holder, then thread a valve cover bolt into the top of them. Using a pair of pliers, grab the bolt, and use the rocker arm for a little leverage. This will pop them right out. Mine have always come out without much pressure, but they were definitely seated. I have heard of some people having injectors kinda stuck in there though and requiring a bit of force.
Sean
 
Sean, thank you for the info man. REALLY!!! Somethin tells me now that Sunday im not gonna be that busy, might get on it.


And about that two piece cover.... Would be easy to just cut out a section right where the gear is so you have enough room to work, just get some self tapping sheet metal screws not too long, get a piece of light guage metal, cut out what you want, and cut the new piece to fit. Drill you some pilot holes in both pieces (would be a good idea to tack weld the two pieces together to have holes that line up) put some rtv between the two surfaces and close it up.



Guess I think its easy cause I have grown up with a dad thats been in the sheet metal business for 25 years and I work in a machine shop:D
 
sstockton said:
Exactly. We were only talking about flexible lines if there was a mechanism that actually rotated the pump, to change timing once going.

Its really straight forward otherwise. A 2 piece cover would be awesome. If you build one, make 2, and give me a shout. As far as hard starting. With 5* I only have trouble starting when its below freezing. And honestly, I wouldn't call it trouble, it just has to crack once or twice, instead of being just a blip of the key.
Sean
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So you are saying that we don't need a special keyway to advance the timing? I just bought a Cummins engine. I'm gonna remove the front cover & build a custom cover which allows access to the pump gear. I really hope this works, but I think to see any real benefits, we will need to atleast advance the timing 10*.
 
Red Sleeper said:
Sean, thank you for the info man. REALLY!!! Somethin tells me now that Sunday im not gonna be that busy, might get on it.


And about that two piece cover.... Would be easy to just cut out a section right where the gear is so you have enough room to work, just get some self tapping sheet metal screws not too long, get a piece of light guage metal, cut out what you want, and cut the new piece to fit. Drill you some pilot holes in both pieces (would be a good idea to tack weld the two pieces together to have holes that line up) put some rtv between the two surfaces and close it up.



Guess I think its easy cause I have grown up with a dad thats been in the sheet metal business for 25 years and I work in a machine shop:D
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Yee gawds no on that idea for a cover :bang

If you work in a machine shop cut a piece of billet aluminum at least 1/8 thick and machine out a backing plate you can bond to the inside with matching threaded holes for the attach bolts.
 
Billysgoat said:
Yee gawds no on that idea for a cover :bang

If you work in a machine shop cut a piece of billet aluminum at least 1/8 thick and machine out a backing plate you can bond to the inside with matching threaded holes for the attach bolts.
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Yea but how much room is back there? You want a certain thickness to get a good grasp with a bolt. And I dont think aluminum is a good idea, too easy to strip out. Just some mild steel like 1018, 1045, just plane ol carbon.
 
just getting this staight.. bump the tooth one notch.. and it will give you 10* of timming.. so if i bump it a tooth and put my quad on 8 and that is as high as i go with it any ways.. it will be all good.. or will i need to run a lower timming on my quad?
i am thinking i will be doing mine the first of the yr..
and
has any body dynoed with a timming bump of one tooth.. what was the gain..
on stock?
and with quad or smarty or edge?
 
oklahoma_6speed said:
just getting this staight.. bump the tooth one notch.. and it will give you 10* of timming.. so if i bump it a tooth and put my quad on 8 and that is as high as i go with it any ways.. it will be all good.. or will i need to run a lower timming on my quad?
i am thinking i will be doing mine the first of the yr..
and
has any body dynoed with a timming bump of one tooth.. what was the gain..
on stock?
and with quad or smarty or edge?
Click to expand...

I don't think you will gain much power wise, but your powercurve will be higher in the rpm band. This mod would only be good for a puller.
 
1 tooth is 5*. Haven't dynoed it, but I am running this set up, and when I get my boost leak fixed, I will be throwing it on a dyno and doing back to back testing, at left coast diesel.

The pump is only capable of advancing timing so much on its own, and it will do this in stock form. The addition of a timing box starts the dynamic curve earlier, but doesn't change base or total static advance. Mechanically advancing is the only way you could change either of those. By moving the power curve higher, you will show higher numbers, as HP is a function of Torque and RPM. It also seems to drop EGT's and clean up smoke a little bit. But it would definitely be a good mod for pullers and racers. I'm hoping it helps me at the back 1/2 of the track, as that is where my times seem to suffer.
Sean
 
Red Sleeper said:
Yea but how much room is back there? You want a certain thickness to get a good grasp with a bolt. And I dont think aluminum is a good idea, too easy to strip out. Just some mild steel like 1018, 1045, just plane ol carbon.
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Knock on wood, in 240k I have never had the timing cover off so I can't tell you. Finding the amount of free space would be easy though, just slap a dab of silly putty on a gear and stick the cover back on. The best option for the plate would likely be a backing plate with flat head bolts, bond all that together and use nuts to hold the external part on.
 
if your pulling the cover i would just drill holes thread in studs and the weld it from teh back and onlu have it stick out an 1/8" because there is not much room between the gear and cover in there
 
If you change timing more than 3deg on the pump ,compare to the engine speed/position sensor it will tigger a fault code ....
 
i didnt do back to back dyno runs but it pulls harder up top with the big sticks and charger i have
 
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