2.6" smooth bore/slick face

Leadfoot,

I have grazed over this thread, and you seem to offer a different perspective on organizations and such. Judging by your voracity against big shops being involved in helping to set rules, I'm gonna assume that at some point you either A)Got whupped up on my a truck that was in a big shop's stable -or- B) It would make(or have made) you more competitive to tone down the front runners.....


I may be off base, but it would seem that Your argument, while seemingly based on a crusade for "Fair and equal.... yada yada" is based more on ill intent towards certain vendors that you perceive to be somehow harming the sport.

I'm not going to argue particulars of turbochargers and axle upgrades and what not, but I will tell you that fans generally prefer to see powerful stuff as opposed to trucks that were classed to save money, reduce carnage and, appear stock and stuff. I find it amusing that you proclaim to want to see diesel pulling grow, and fancy yourself as a promoter, yet you openly bash one of the pioneers of the sport in your signature.... Rather proudly. LOL

Tell me, since you have all of this figured out and all... You throw huge pulls with tons of the Superstock diesels and such that fans really love to see right?

No and Yes. There are no "big name" shops out this way. We have Mass Diesel and PDS as our biggest shops (except for Dave's Radzierez's....and I know I butchered the spelling...truck most out your way would not have heard of either). Mass diesel only pulled exibition with us and PDS runs 3.0. When Todd was 2.6 I pulled my stock turbo against him and when we had no turbo rules he had a decent pair of twins and I still pulled against him (had a fun time too). We never let a vendor dictate what we would or wouldn't do. Have I consulted with them....HELL yes, was just at PDS's shop last week. We opted to go open driveline in 3.0 based on that meeting. PDS does not sell drivelines, and if "good" 2.6's are having issues with 1 ton drivelines, a "good" 3.0 should eat them (although some could argue that "spinning" them more helps, but once you get bite and traction.......:doh:).

And maybe I came off as saying I don't like "big shops", not at all. They have their place, but NO shop (even Billy-Bobs Diesel shop) should not have a hand in setting rules as it's tough to be unbiased and/or do things that might be "good for business". I have not been to a TS pull, but I understand it's one of the few "National" pulls that allows nitrous. If I'm not mistaken they are known for their nitrous kits. Coincidence......? Not "bashing" them per se (they are out to make a living just like you and I), but is it really in the best interest of the sport?

Would "reigning" in ANY class tone down the front runners.....absofrigginlutely! It's a necessary evil once you surpass a point that shouldn't have been passed. A true puller would continue pulling and be up to the challenge, someone who only pulls if they can win......?

You say people want to see power....yes. How much power though....LOL Each class is a step up (not giant leap) so it showcases the difference in power (and in some cases looks such as duals, hoodstacks, hanging weight, etc etc). Some people want to see Scheid's (oops I meant vendor of your choice), latest and greatest pulling truck, but there are some who are interested more in the other classes. It takes ALL classes to keep things going. Most (I'm talking general fan, not those that pull...ie. the ones paying the gate fees) probably wouldn't travel a long distance and pay to see 4-6 Mod trucks pull, or even just to see 15 2.6 trucks pulls, but put those together and throw in their friend Jim-Bob in the workstock class and you may get a good turn out. Oddly enough when it comes to "asses in the seats", the "big boys" might get the crowd going, but the crowd is there because of Jim-Bob. A once a year national event (such as Scheid or TS, etc) is a little different and the percentages are lopsided, but it's also a few places a few times a year, and that's it (kinda like the superbowl or Daytona 500, as they bring in a different fanbase that the other games/races as they are more commercialized).

As for "proudly bashing a pioneer of the sport", you might want to re-read my signature. It doesn't bash the "pioneer" for wanting to sell parts (it's America isn't it), it's bashing the idiots who vote the rules in that line vendor's pockets unnecessarily.... That being said, I don't know if Scheid even gave input to ANY rules, it was just a comment that someone else had made that seemed very fitting (I apologize to anyone at Scheid if it seems I was bashing them). I could change the signature and replace Scheid with "the vendor of your choice", but that just seems too PC. I saw it, copied, and pasted it. Scheid just happened to be the one in the quote. As for companies such as them making products and selling them to make more power (I say KEEP GOING!). I love MORE power.

More power is great, but there is a reason Sigma pumps aren't allowed in certain classes, all I'm saying is keep reasoning in mind in other "lower" classes. There is a reason why each and EVERY class from workstock to 3.0 has limits (otherwise there would be no "classes" just one big class). If your goal is 800HP great, more power to you and I hope you make 900HP, but don't think that you should be allowed to pull workstock. And here is where I think the biggest contention and where the waters get muddied and cause other areas to become blurred, is that (MY OWN OPINION) is that the 2.6 class that started years ago should not have been allowed to advance this far (and especially this quickly). To each their own. It was (and is) a great class, and one that I think could bring the sport to a higher level ALL across the nation. Now it's Great in certain areas, mediocre in some, and poor in other places and at some point I think it will start to deminish because of how it grew (again, just one man's opinion based on things he's seen).

I'll try to tone it down a bit, I think everyone knows where everyone stands and it's not going to change tomorrow or even the next day (if at all), but sometimes it's hard not to add my $.02
 
No and Yes. There are no "big name" shops out this way. We have Mass Diesel and PDS as our biggest shops (except for Dave's Radzierez's....and I know I butchered the spelling...truck most out your way would not have heard of either). Mass diesel only pulled exibition with us and PDS runs 3.0. When Todd was 2.6 I pulled my stock turbo against him and when we had no turbo rules he had a decent pair of twins and I still pulled against him (had a fun time too). We never let a vendor dictate what we would or wouldn't do. Have I consulted with them....HELL yes, was just at PDS's shop last week. We opted to go open driveline in 3.0 based on that meeting. PDS does not sell drivelines, and if "good" 2.6's are having issues with 1 ton drivelines, a "good" 3.0 should eat them (although some could argue that "spinning" them more helps, but once you get bite and traction.......:doh:).

And maybe I came off as saying I don't like "big shops", not at all. They have their place, but NO shop (even Billy-Bobs Diesel shop) should not have a hand in setting rules as it's tough to be unbiased and/or do things that might be "good for business". I have not been to a TS pull, but I understand it's one of the few "National" pulls that allows nitrous. If I'm not mistaken they are known for their nitrous kits. Coincidence......? Not "bashing" them per se (they are out to make a living just like you and I), but is it really in the best interest of the sport?


TS has not had Nitrous in their pulls since 08 I believe.... Hell, PPL Does the TS and Scheid pulls now. Your information is waaaaay off base.

Would "reigning" in ANY class tone down the front runners.....absofrigginlutely! It's a necessary evil once you surpass a point that shouldn't have been passed. A true puller would continue pulling and be up to the challenge, someone who only pulls if they can win......?

Reigning in front runners is kinda like the no child left behind thing IMO

Generally, those who get thier ass whipped by somebody who just flat does it better cries foul and wants to slow them down. See any form of drag racing for numerous examples. It is not a Sanctioning bodies sport to slow folks down. Sanctioning bodies should ensure fair rules and safety, not benefit for those that lack the drive(or funds) to get it done. What if you were an all star baseball pitcher, aner were told you couldn't throw curveballs or fastballs cause the competition couldn't hit them???

You say people want to see power....yes. How much power though....LOL Each class is a step up (not giant leap) so it showcases the difference in power (and in some cases looks such as duals, hoodstacks, hanging weight, etc etc). Some people want to see Scheid's (oops I meant vendor of your choice), latest and greatest pulling truck, but there are some who are interested more in the other classes. It takes ALL classes to keep things going. Most (I'm talking general fan, not those that pull...ie. the ones paying the gate fees) probably wouldn't travel a long distance and pay to see 4-6 Mod trucks pull, or even just to see 15 2.6 trucks pulls, but put those together and throw in their friend Jim-Bob in the workstock class and you may get a good turn out. Oddly enough when it comes to "asses in the seats", the "big boys" might get the crowd going, but the crowd is there because of Jim-Bob. A once a year national event (such as Scheid or TS, etc) is a little different and the percentages are lopsided, but it's also a few places a few times a year, and that's it (kinda like the superbowl or Daytona 500, as they bring in a different fanbase that the other games/races as they are more commercialized).



No Offense, but if you think that the crowd sows up because of Jim-Bob, you need to get out more. Sure Jim-Bob's mamma and aunt Suzy show up, but the majority of the crowd at any dencet sized pull show up to see the freakshow. The pull at the NFMS doesn't have Workstock, yet 25,000 folks show up???? I bet even Jim-Bob is in the crowd. Aunt Suzie too

As for "proudly bashing a pioneer of the sport", you might want to re-read my signature. It doesn't bash the "pioneer" for wanting to sell parts (it's America isn't it), it's bashing the idiots who vote the rules in that line vendor's pockets unnecessarily.... That being said, I don't know if Scheid even gave input to ANY rules, it was just a comment that someone else had made that seemed very fitting (I apologize to anyone at Scheid if it seems I was bashing them). I could change the signature and replace Scheid with "the vendor of your choice", but that just seems too PC. I saw it, copied, and pasted it. Scheid just happened to be the one in the quote. As for companies such as them making products and selling them to make more power (I say KEEP GOING!). I love MORE power.

I'll say this, is it any different for a competitor to give input on rules? Who do you know that Let Dan Schied dictate rules in the first place, and exactly what went on there? IF Dan called an organization to give his thoughts on rules, Isn't that his God-Given right? Jesus, you act like thw man was in a back room making some sort of underhanded-deal and seem to have no first hand knowledge of anything, yet display a very suggestive quote in your signature... So hell yes I think it is bashing.

More power is great, but there is a reason Sigma pumps aren't allowed in certain classes, all I'm saying is keep reasoning in mind in other "lower" classes. There is a reason why each and EVERY class from workstock to 3.0 has limits (otherwise there would be no "classes" just one big class). If your goal is 800HP great, more power to you and I hope you make 900HP, but don't think that you should be allowed to pull workstock. And here is where I think the biggest contention and where the waters get muddied and cause other areas to become blurred, is that (MY OWN OPINION) is that the 2.6 class that started years ago should not have been allowed to advance this far (and especially this quickly). To each their own. It was (and is) a great class, and one that I think could bring the sport to a higher level ALL across the nation. Now it's Great in certain areas, mediocre in some, and poor in other places and at some point I think it will start to deminish because of how it grew (again, just one man's opinion based on things he's seen).

I'll try to tone it down a bit, I think everyone knows where everyone stands and it's not going to change tomorrow or even the next day (if at all), but sometimes it's hard not to add my $.02


See my thoughts above.

A few misconceptions that you have seem to be blurring your judgment a bit. No big deal.
 
What most pullers dont see/ dont care is what Leadfoot is saying. Yes the top 5-6 trucks are close so why change the rules. Because how far back are the back 5-6. The more you let deep pockets buy feet the more you seperate the class this discurages new people from building trucks. The top pullers dont care the fewwer trucks the sooner they get to get paid and go home. The big problem is as guys leave the sport the class shrinks because the 4k turbo scarred billyjo from builing a truck so now who is pulling. Look at the ITPA in IL 3.0 class when it started the avvrage class was 15-18 truck seperated by less than 8ft anyone could win any night. The custom pumps and turbos that bend the gray area keep going up in cost now its the top 2-3 with deep pocket by inches and 15 ft to whats left of the rest of the guys usally around 10 trucks at any pull the number of truck being built vs the number of guys leaving is scarry for the future of the sport.

What happned to the days of a street class(2.6 is supposed to be) with actally drivable trucks. As far as the cost to build a open driveline vs OEM open is alott cheaper everone looks at the cost to build a built SQHD and says an 80 is cheaper but with that big of axle it dosent need all that high dollar crap to live.

just the 2cents of an expuller and current crew guy who works on both sides of the fence in more than one class
 
See my thoughts above.

A few misconceptions that you have seem to be blurring your judgment a bit. No big deal.

Funny right there. You'd be surprised at your own...

As for TS, I stated I had not been to one of their pulls, but I do know they did allow nitrous (at least back in the day), and I it's not hard to figure out why at the time (it was plainly stated back in the day). Sorry I did not have a more "current" example. As for no child left behind, you have got to be kidding me.....LOL, reigning in the class a little does not mean the kid with a $400 programmer and an exhaust is going to compete in a 2.6 (or any class). You're kind of missing the point, but not a big deal.
 
What most pullers dont see/ dont care is what Leadfoot is saying. Yes the top 5-6 trucks are close so why change the rules. Because how far back are the back 5-6. The more you let deep pockets buy feet the more you seperate the class this discurages new people from building trucks. The top pullers dont care the fewwer trucks the sooner they get to get paid and go home. The big problem is as guys leave the sport the class shrinks because the 4k turbo scarred billyjo from builing a truck so now who is pulling. Look at the ITPA in IL 3.0 class when it started the avvrage class was 15-18 truck seperated by less than 8ft anyone could win any night. The custom pumps and turbos that bend the gray area keep going up in cost now its the top 2-3 with deep pocket by inches and 15 ft to whats left of the rest of the guys usally around 10 trucks at any pull the number of truck being built vs the number of guys leaving is scarry for the future of the sport.

What happned to the days of a street class(2.6 is supposed to be) with actally drivable trucks. As far as the cost to build a open driveline vs OEM open is alott cheaper everone looks at the cost to build a built SQHD and says an 80 is cheaper but with that big of axle it dosent need all that high dollar crap to live.

just the 2cents of an expuller and current crew guy who works on both sides of the fence in more than one class

Other than the statement in red, I fully agree. While I don't think 2.6 should be "street" trucks, I do believe they should have a little more streetability (if that even makes sense) or less of a "jump" from street (why run street equipment then...). 3.0 should be the start of "non streetability", but again one opinion and opinions are like a-holes. One big problem with what you just stated is that one statement will put you so far on the other side of the fence, it's not funny.....
 
2.6 at scheids was workstock about five years ago. It's not now true but people's greed and selfishness has drove the street right out and workstock will be the next premier class cause guys don't think they can play in 2.6 so the build 2.6 truck with a custom built 2.5 turbo. I bet in two years the 2.6 class will be gone, the sanctions will drop out and we will be back to brush pulling for 75$. People will never change including me so really this discussion is kinda pointless.
 
I am not a sled puller but I have been to a few and I've tried it once. My question is why do you need 1200hp in 2.6 to be competitive? Tony Burkhard placed 4th in the 3.0 class at SDX last year and he let off at the end of the run. His truck did 1180hp on an engine dyno with a batmo s475.
 
My bad, actually did 1060hp.

[ame="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pcLcsAdox7E"]YouTube - 1060hp on BatMoWheel 75mm![/ame]
 
I'm not interested in cuttin back hp. That's how Motosports works by who has the most. But to write tight but vague rules just increases cost and divides the people. Furthermore the tech is the weak link so writing more rules that are harder to tech is the dumbest thing I have heard yet. Plugging a inducer bore is easy so that's why I say if it plugs its good. Stop worrying about mwe size and placement and 1/8 protrusion with a minimum 3/4 pothead bore in front.

But I probably sound like a broken record and somebody like Robh will come in and tell me Pullin is a luxury and if I can't hang with the big boys I need to just stay home and let the big boys have their way with it.
 
It sounds like they pulled it down till it snuffed the charger and they also hit pretty hard and fast. It didn't sound like the Haisley dyno vids for sure.
 
Maybe its normal, IDK. Haven't been around a bunch of engine dynos, but if I built an engine and the dyno operator loaded it hard to enough to just kill it, I would proceed to punch him in the mouth LOL
 
A built 2.6 truck is driveable i drove mine up town all the time. Even took it and cruised around town at a few pulls last year with a few people in with me. Just dont hit any pot holes or bumps in the road as it could be a bit rough at times.

The people complaining that they cant keep up are the same that will complain when rules change even if in their favor because they had to buy new parts. Rules would stay the same longer if people wouldnt complain then you can build a truck and not worry if the rules are gonna change next year or by the time you get the truck built.

Honestly i think the classes are to close in power right now. I think changing a few things would be better but i wouldnt bring power down very much in 2.6 class and i would raise the power in 3.0 a good amount and change tires.
 
A built 2.6 truck is driveable i drove mine up town all the time. Even took it and cruised around town at a few pulls last year with a few people in with me.
The people complaining that they cant keep up are the same that will complain when rules change even if in their favor because they had to buy new parts.
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I'm not interested in cuttin back hp. That's how Motosports works by who has the most. But to write tight but vague rules just increases cost and divides the people. Furthermore the tech is the weak link so writing more rules that are harder to tech is the dumbest thing I have heard yet. Plugging a inducer bore is easy so that's why I say if it plugs its good. Stop worrying about mwe size and placement and 1/8 protrusion with a minimum 3/4 pothead bore in front.

But I probably sound like a broken record and somebody like Robh will come in and tell me Pullin is a luxury and if I can't hang with the big boys I need to just stay home and let the big boys have their way with it.

No, I'm all for if it plugs its good, so how about you not put words in my mouth. I'm for bushings too, hell then I could bush down a 3.6+ compressor wheel and the s400s would be further behind, and it would be cheaper too. Then somebody like illinoisram would still be crying.
 
Why not just run a 3.6 smoothbore class with cepeks. That would be a fun class and easy to tech.
 
Why not just run a 3.6 smoothbore class with cepeks. That would be a fun class and easy to tech.

I would jump up to 3.0 if I knew more than one other person around here was doing it, maybe 2013.
 
I may consider jumping up in 2013 if you do. I just would rather pull against a handfull of trucks like the 2.6 class has now. There are also less 3.0 pulls than 2.6. I guess you could run 3.0 in the open class. The only competition would be if a 4.1 tractor showed up the current nwmtpa tractors couldnt keep up with a 3.0 truck as they make a hair more hp than the top 2.6 trucks. Another thing is id hate to spending the money on open driveline to just to make another 150hp.
 
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I am not a sled puller but I have been to a few and I've tried it once. My question is why do you need 1200hp in 2.6 to be competitive? Tony Burkhard placed 4th in the 3.0 class at SDX last year and he let off at the end of the run. His truck did 1180hp on an engine dyno with a batmo s475.
Probably because it was the SDX pull (sh!t track = better chance of a lower hp truck sneaking into the top 5) If he would run @ more Midwest pulls w/ good tracks you would see a lot different results.:Cheer:
 
I know how to make it simple to tech the turbo. Do away with the turbo. Natural aspirated class, no turbo allowed!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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